5

The spirit of Jesus leaves his body that was prepared for him Heb10:5

“Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last.” ‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:46‬

When Jesus resurrected and the tomb was empty

“But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb, and as she wept she stooped to look into the tomb. And she saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and one at the feet. They said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping?” She said to them, “They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him.”” ‭‭John‬ ‭20:11-13‬

Now Jesus was outside the tomb in a body

“Having said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing, but she did not know that it was Jesus.” ‭‭John‬ ‭20:14‬

Did Jesus’ spirit return to His old crucified body?

At some point Jesus has a glorified body

“who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.” ‭‭Philippians‬ ‭3:21‬

This question is not asking when this occurred per se unless someone thinks this happened at the moment of resurrection.

Nihil Sine Deo
  • 9,044
  • 7
  • 38
  • 83
  • 1
    By same old crucified body, I mean He was NOT in a new glorified body (that could go through walls for example) immediately after resurrection. – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 18 '20 at 17:36
  • Is not it a self evident question? There was not "old crucified body" but only one body that died and was risen from dead. That this risen body had features of penetrating through walls etc. is a completely different issue. If a drop of a water is turned into a snow-flake, it is the same drop of water nevertheless; similarly, if Jesus' resurrected body acquired any new features, it is the same body nevertheless. Yet this is a question, for Mary remained a virgin after His birth, so penetration of walls was His body's feature also before, and He could make His body shine as well on Mt. Thabor. – Levan Gigineishvili Sep 18 '20 at 20:01
  • 1
    @LevanGigineishvili "If a drop of a water is turned into a snow-flake, it is the same drop of water nevertheless" I take it you mean it is the same physical substance, which has transformed from a 'drop of liquid water' into a 'crystalline structure of solid water'? We say it's the 'same thing' because it has the same atoms, or what have you. I believe the question here is about the degree of the transformation, not whether there is the same substance, but I could be mistaken. – Only True God Sep 18 '20 at 21:39
  • 1
    Who washed and embalmed him - he was already gone when they came to do so? Luke 24:1 – Steve Sep 18 '20 at 22:47
  • @LevanGigineishvili What is obvious to me is in the greater context of scripture there are earthly bodies and heavenly bodies. And somewhere along the line Jesus took on a heavenly body. If the next verse is anything to go by “in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.” ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:52‬ then Jesus resurrected with His earthly body and changed or raised directly with an imperishable body. The context seems to indicate the former. – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 19 '20 at 00:45
  • @NihilSineDeo Even if your differentiation of, in my view and in usual view, of the complete Interchangeable synonyms (in this context) of “resurrected” and “raised”, still what was in your view transformed was the same physical body that underwent the death on the cross This one body did not adopt any other, heavenly body, but itself gained new features. If I become yogi and drive my body to a level of superb agility it does not mean that I have adopted new body unless metaphorically. And (other issue) He could go through material barriers even before death - Mary stood virgin after His birth – Levan Gigineishvili Sep 19 '20 at 01:52
  • @LevanGigineishvili if you can show with Scripture verses that it gained new features I would welcome said verses. “There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another. So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.... ‭‭1Cor15:40, 42-44, 46-49 – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 19 '20 at 01:58
  • @NihilSineDeo I do not affirm neither deny that His body gained new features after rising or resurrecting (which words are synonyms!), because this is a separate issue. I say that there was not any other body adopted by the resurrected/risen body of Jesus, but it was the same body in which He lived. To show that it was so, He shewed the remaining scars from nails to disciples, Thomas even touched them, He ate (bread, honey and fish) in front of them etc. So, why to torture biblical text? Have a pity!:) – Levan Gigineishvili Sep 19 '20 at 02:08
  • @LevanGigineishvili we agree then... at least up to a point we agree. I don’t understand all that you said but I understood that Jesus’ spirit reentered the same body he died in. That much I agree if that’s what you said – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 19 '20 at 03:07
  • @NihilSineDeo And this is self-evident, so why to problematize the self-evident? It is the same if I would ask: “Did Jesus really have two hands and ten fingers on them? Where is the evidence?” Yes, He resurrected/rose in the same body in which he lived and which laid dead in tomb, and this is absolutely and unequivocally clear from the Gospels and unsurprisingly represents the central tenet of all mainstream Christian traditions: Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant and even heretical Monophysite and Nestorian traditions. Origenism that claimed something else was condemned in 553 in Constantinople. – Levan Gigineishvili Sep 19 '20 at 03:22
  • @LevanGigineishvili I was going to follow it up with another question but unfortunately it was already asked and answered, namely at what point did He get His glorified body? Even so this question is an eye opener for me to see that even obvious and simple questions are so easily misconstrued. To your other point that Thomas saw the marks of his crucifixion says nothing about Him having the same resurrected body because they didn’t recognize His face. “Now none of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?”* They knew it was the Lord.” ‭‭John‬ ‭21:12‬* Or his voice for that matter v5 – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 19 '20 at 03:41
  • @NihilSineDeo The reason why Jesus asks Thomas to touch His wounds is exactly that! What “that”? That the body that suffered those wounds is resurrected and stands in front of Thomas. And also, the sun that illuminates now my room is the same sun that illuminates my father’s room few meters away. What else? A, ok, 2+2=4. But I think i reached nay surpassed the limits of futility in discussing this here. Adieu. – Levan Gigineishvili Sep 19 '20 at 03:55
  • We should consider the Transfiguration. In advance of His passion, Jesus showed Peter, James, &John the glory He’d gain. After the four of them arrived at the top of the mountain, the three disciples saw Jesus’ garments white as light. Moses & Elijah would be talking with Him.

    The 3 disciples dropped their heads in joy & fear. After Jesus told them to raise their heads, they only saw Jesus as He had been previously. I believe Jesus’ heavenly, glorified body was seen there. He commanded the 3 disciples to tell no one what they’d seen until He’d been raised from the dead.

     – John Martin Sep 23 '20 at 15:43

5 Answers5

3

In short, yes, because it was not a different body. Of course, once the Spirit of Christ, was restored to the lifeless, maimed, crucified and buried body - that body was resurrected, but this changed the body not swapped it for a better one.

Paul compares this change in a resurrected body with the change between a seed and seedling:

Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (1Co 15:36-44)

The resurrection is the point that produced that significant change of the same body (the seedling is the resurrected seed), so that it is the same body but drastically changed.

Since it was the Spirit of Christ that raised him from the dead that caused the Resurrection...

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. (Rom 8:11)

...it will follow that the answer to your question: "Did Jesus’ spirit return into the same old crucified body?", the answer must be: yes... and it was raised a spiritual body.

Now, a spiritual body does not mean He was a spirit, "for a spirit does not have flesh and bone as ye see me have" (Luke 24:39), so it must mean that it is a physical body that can nteract with and operate within the spiritual (heavenly) realm, without the limitation induced by the physical laws. Jesus ascended with a physical body into heaven, a spiritual place, as did Elijah (even with most of his clothes on). The spiritual realm does not exclude physical objects, the physical realm is a subset of the spiritual, almost like a 2-dimensional plane is a subset of the infinitely larger 3-dimensional place.

Maybe that is what is meant with a celestial body - heavenly vehicle of the human spirit, as opposed to the terrestrial body - earthy vehicle of the human spirit. I imagine it could be similar to the "abilities" that a 3-dimensional being will appear to have in a 2-dimensional world. It seems then to be the same body but released from its confines to the physical laws, through death and resurrection.

Pieter Rousseau
  • 664
  • 5
  • 13
  • I wasn’t implying a swapping but I was imagining a transformation. You indicate it was at the moment of resurrection, I could see that option as being valid and you provide scripture to back your claim. I’m not yet persuaded this is the only possibility, Paul does speak of those who are alive being changed whilst still alive, and certainly all the people Jesus raised from the dead were raised back into their mortal unchanged bodies. If the return of Christ would have happened in their lifetime they would have been changed whilst alive after being resurrected. +1 – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 21 '20 at 12:52
  • @NihilSineDeo: Thanks Nihil Sine Deo! I didn't think you did suggest a body swop, but that seemed to me the only way in which one could answer "no" to your question unless you assume the body was glorified before and therefore apart from the Spirit - if it was the same body and the Spirit of Christ that resurrected then it was the Old body that it returned to. – Pieter Rousseau Sep 21 '20 at 14:08
  • @NihilSineDeo I do not think there is a difference between what happens to the bodies of those alive believers and "sleeping" believers apart from the state of their decomposition. One is dust and ashes, and another pristine recently buried corpse, some in old age but not in the ground and some with small young bodies. The one difference is that the sleeping believers' spirits are not in the earthly bodies but coming with Christ, they are resurrected first with new celestial bodies, and then those believers that are alive are also changed in the twinkling of an eye into their celestial bodies. – Pieter Rousseau Sep 21 '20 at 14:15
  • I read that last part several times before I made sense of it. So you think their spirits are coming with Christ and then they will enter their bodies that are resurrected? – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 21 '20 at 16:27
  • 1
    @NihilSineDeo You've actually also caused me to carefully think about this because the physical resurrection is odd! No wonder some thought of strange scenarios (Luk 20:27-33), mocked Paul for preaching it (Act17:32) and had questions about how the body will be resurrected (1 Cor 15:35). I am wondering, what about those whose bodies are utterly destroyed and not buried - think Jan Huss! But if I rejected the bodily resurrection based on my inability to understand, Jesus would answer "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God." (Mat 22:29) and Paul, "thou fool" (1 cor 15:35) – Pieter Rousseau Sep 22 '20 at 04:43
  • @NihilSineDeo So in trying to make sense of it, I must acknowledge that some things might just be out of my ability to understand on this side of eternity. Nevertheless, trusting in the power of God, and what is revealed in the Scriptures surely we can conjecture... So to answer that last question: All dead believers are with Christ (not bodily): "God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me" Psalms 49:15; "the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom:" Luk 16:22; "To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." Luk 23:43; ... – Pieter Rousseau Sep 22 '20 at 05:05
  • @NihilSineDeo cont... they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.(Act 7:59);to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.(2Cor5:8);having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.(Php 1:24);I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held(Rev 6:9);... – Pieter Rousseau Sep 22 '20 at 05:07
  • @NihilSineDeo: ...cont... Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.(Rev 14:13). So it seems like when Christ descends in glory at his second coming, He brings the dead with him: For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (1Th 4:14). Then their bodies are resurrected by the power and Spirit of God: And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.(1Co 6:14) – Pieter Rousseau Sep 22 '20 at 05:16
  • @NihilSineDeo: ...cont...Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.(2Co 4:14). and that power changes our bodies into glorious bodies Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (Php 3:21) "sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body" (1Cor15:44).and our soul/spirit is returned into that glorified body. I imagine this "recreation" is similar to the first creation: – Pieter Rousseau Sep 22 '20 at 05:21
  • @NihilSineDeo: ...cont... And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen 2:7). One difference between our resurrection and that of Christ's, is that His own Spirit was the Spirit that raised him from the dead (Rom 8:9-11) and his Spirit raises us from the dead, not our own spirit/soul that resurrects the body, but the Spirit of Christ - our spirits are in Him, as He blows life into our decaying bodies and resurrects us to glory. – Pieter Rousseau Sep 22 '20 at 05:29
  • @NihilSineDeo: "So you think their spirits are coming with Christ and then they will enter their bodies that are resurrected?" Not as if at the resurrection the bodies are first remade and then there are these glorified lifeless vehicles into which our spirits return: the resurrected body is an immortal, incorruptible body (1 Cor 15:54) which means it has to have the eternal life of Christ (Joh 11:25) as an indivisible part of it unlike our current bodies, so the resurrection event must have the return of the person's soul/spirit (that is IN CHRIST) as part of it being raised to eternal life. – Pieter Rousseau Sep 22 '20 at 05:38
2

Did Jesus’ spirit return to His crucified body?

  • Since you reference the Gospel of John, the answer is "Yes" - based on John 20:25-27.

John 20:25-27 [KJV] :

"25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, **Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.**
"26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you."
"27 Then saith he to Thomas, **Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side** and be not faithless, but believing."
  • By showing Thomas the nail wounds in His hands, Jesus in the Gospel of John returned to resurrect His crucified body.
חִידָה
  • 8,405
  • 3
  • 15
  • 42
  • 3
    Not clear if this passage entails a 'same old' body, or rather a renewed, glorified body which maintains those marks. 'Same old' in the question is ambiguous. – Only True God Sep 18 '20 at 17:21
  • @AnthonyBurg I was going to make the same remark but how could I word the question to make it less ambiguous that I mean the exact same body that was crucified on the cross and could not go through walls as clearly now it could in the case of Thomas, John20. I could follow up with another question at what point did Jesus get His new gloried body that that question has been asked and answer here already. – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 18 '20 at 17:32
  • 1
    @NihilSineDeo Yes, you're butting up against difficult problems in ontology here (for ex., the thought experiment of Theseus' ship). It's not clear why we have 'the same' body in everyday life, when every cell is replaced every so many years. Much less a situation like this, where something very unusual supposedly happens where we have much less information. – Only True God Sep 18 '20 at 17:37
  • 1
    @NihilSineDeo OK, I've read your comment on the original question. More clear now, thanks for this. – Only True God Sep 18 '20 at 17:38
  • 1
    This answer should also include a reference to Phil 3:21 and Jesus "gloried body". – Dottard Sep 18 '20 at 22:23
  • Jesus in the Gospel of John returned to resurrect His crucified body. Are you saying he raised himself? Or am I misunderstanding your words? – Steve Sep 18 '20 at 22:51
  • The passage with Thomas actually disproves He had the same body as He did prior to His death. The marks were necessary to prove it was He, whereas His face should have been sufficient. “Now none of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?” They knew it was the Lord.” ‭‭John‬ ‭21:12‬ They didn’t recognize Him by what He looked like, they didn’t even recognize His voice v5 rather they deduced with was He. – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 19 '20 at 03:48
  • @NihilSineDeo no, it doesn't 'disprove' anything. As discussed in other posts, The problem with recognising Jesus wasn't in the subject being different - it was in the eyes being temporarily hindered from seeing. Once God freed them from this they recognised him immediately. Acts 10:40, Luke 24:16 Emmaus Rd, "But their eyes were kept from recognizing him." Otherwise, we're told he was 'seen' as a gardener and a fellow traveller which shows he was 'seen' that way because of God's intervention for a time in their beholding of Jesus. – Steve Sep 21 '20 at 01:42
  • Now none of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?” They knew it was the Lord.” ‭‭John‬ ‭21:12‬ @user48152 – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 21 '20 at 02:33
  • I don't get yr point re Thomas - it is but one example - which does not tell the whole story or explain 'everything'. Why do you think this? - 'disproves He had the same body' – Steve Sep 21 '20 at 02:40
0

No.

Jesus had a different body: a glorified body.

Which is why he wasn't recognized by Mary:

When she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, and did not know that it was Jesus. John 20:11

And why Cleopas and his friends didn't recognize Him either:

After this, Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them as they walked along in the country. Mark 16:12

And has been mentioned oft, Jesus could pass through walls.

At the resurrection of the dead, we will have these bodies too.

But our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body. Philippians 3:20-21

James Ajiduah
  • 345
  • 2
  • 8
  • That’s interesting but does not take into account “Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb. He saw the linen cloths lying there, and the face cloth, which had been on Jesus’ head, not lying with the linen cloths but folded up in a place by itself.” ‭‭John‬ ‭20:6-7‬ therefore the explanation is not quite fully found in your response. – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 22 '20 at 17:35
  • Considering He looked different and could do more, That body wasn't the same Body. Mary couldn't recognize Him, neither could those at Emmaus. – James Ajiduah Sep 22 '20 at 19:15
  • Understood but that’s not the only option to achieving that outcome. It’s also possible that his body took on features as per 1cor15:54 – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 22 '20 at 21:17
  • I.e. it went changes, ergo, not the same Body. – James Ajiduah Sep 22 '20 at 21:37
  • If I take my car and change the engine and the wheels and the transmission does the vin number change? No it’s the same car with upgraded. Changes doesn’t equal Complete replacement. – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 22 '20 at 22:09
  • A more accurate description would be to alter the body of the car and get the engine change. This is what happened with Jesus. He got a rebrand, not an upgrade. Hence why people didn't recognize Jesus and why He could move at the seed of thought and pass thru walls – James Ajiduah Sep 23 '20 at 00:48
-1

The question is misspelled and in the science of logic such misspelling is called an "error of complex question". This means that a questioner puts in a question an information that is not at all self-evident, and therefore, if an answerer fails to see it, then in his (general 'his' without meaning of gender) answer he will unawares and unintentionally will agree with the unwanted information. For instance, if I ask you: "Have you stopped beating your girlfriend?" Whether you answer 'yes' or 'no' in both cases you will agree with the information that you were beating your girlfriend, which of course has nothing to do with actual state of affairs.

Similarly here, in your question you include an information that itself is not at all clear (namely, that Jesus had two different bodies a) the one in which He lived, died and resurrected and b) a "glorified body", which He adopted after resurrection, evidently after having discarded His old resurrected body). Moreover, this theory is quite un-orthodox and un-catholic and un-protestant, shortly, un-everything what the mainstream Christianity holds. I would call this theory a "double-body heresy" (heresy not necessarily in a derogatory sense, but in the sense of "out of orthodoxy" or even "out of mainstreamity"), for you claim that Jesus had kind of two resurrections: 1. When His body resurrected from the tomb; and 2. When He discarded from His spirit/soul this resurrected body (who knows where and when in those 40 days before ascension) and adopted a totally new body, which can be called "glorified body" and has nothing to do with the body in which He lived, died and the wounds of which He showed to doubtful Thomas, whose doubts were dissipated immediately as he saw the wounds and perhaps even touched them.

Of course the bizzarity of this theory speaks for itself. Just fancy: Jesus resurrects in the same body which laid in the tomb and then, after, say ten days He threw this body back to the "hands" of death and destruction, for instance dropped it to the Sea of Galilee for fish to eat it (or made it dematerialise, which is another name for 'death'). This necessarily means that He died second time after the resurrection. Yet, immediately, He put upon Himself some other body, made of more steadfastly fastened atoms and molecules so as to withstand the destruction and with this new body ascended to heavens.

However, the disciples failed to record this great change: Mary Magdalene saw, probably, the very body in which Jesus lived and died in a resurrected form in a garden, recognising Him in it and running to Him with shouting "Rabbuni!" However, she did not fathom that this body would become a dinner for fishes in the Sea of Galilee in just ten days, and later, when other disciples saw Him, it was already His glorified body which had nothing to do with the one pierced by the nails on the Calvary. However, Jesus wanted to hide this fact from them and as a tricky illusionist gave them a guise that He ate fishes in front of them (but this was an intentional delusion from his part for how can a glorified body eat fish? And why?).

But Jesus' canning, which was left unnoticed for more than twenty centuries, was cracked now and dismantled by the author of this question on the stack exchange site, who instructed the humanity and billions of Christians about their error of holding only one body of Christ in which He lived, died and was resurrected, to lead them to a glorious truth of second death of Jesus' body in the belies of the fishes of the Sea of Galilee and Jesus' spirit's new cladding in a glorious body already made of strongly fastened atoms and molecules that would survive the effects of time and would start to belong to Him eternally.

Strongly smacks of mythology, phantasy genre etc., not theology.

Levan Gigineishvili
  • 10,559
  • 1
  • 11
  • 26
  • @Down-voter Dear down-voter, the gist of my answer is that the double-body theory belongs to the “Mythology” section of the stack-exchange site as transcending all limits of plausibility and credibility and as being at odds with all great traditions of Christianity (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant and even Coptic/Armenian and Nestorian). To affirm that a Jesus killed His resurrected body, thus underwent death second time and then took a new glorious body is unscriptural and mythological. If you have a better solution, please inform me. Otherwise, have a nice day! – Levan Gigineishvili Sep 21 '20 at 05:33
  • It wasn't me, but please spare us the long drawn-out meandering method of answering Q. Which often include NO scripture, just a thought bubble inside a thought bubble. Most of your answer (being generous there) is your own interpretation of that which was never expressed in Q. Maybe you should write a theological novel, fictional of course, to use this incredible talent you have. – Steve Sep 21 '20 at 10:18
  • @user48152 My post was addressed to the down-voter so you needn't need to bother at all. But since you write those wrong things about my post, let you know that all my positions are based on the scriptural evidence and reason based on them. If you dislike my style, its a question of taste, but I use a traditional "reductio ad absurdum" method. If you think that the bizarre theory of Jesus' double body has any scriptural ground, then you read your own scriptures. But why did you snap our discussion on the matter of divinity of Jesus? I hoped for a lengthy discussion on chat and was disappointed – Levan Gigineishvili Sep 21 '20 at 12:18
  • Your answer was in part directed at me (my question). I want to clarify, I am not advocating two deaths or a “double body” I’m saying that just as there are people raised from the dead today back into their mortal bodies, Jesus could a) have been raised into an immortal body directly or b) raised back into His mortal body which changed into an immortal body “at the twinkling of an eye”. I’m not being dogmatic on either option, I’m saying both should be considered given for now no one has shown enough scriptural proof it’s definitely on or the other. – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 21 '20 at 12:58
  • @NihilSineDeo Thanks indeed for the clarification! Yet, the possibility you present is not a real possibility, for the "a)" possibility is non secuitur according to the Scriptures and is to be totally omitted even before it is stated, because the alpha and omega of Christianity, based on a solid and indubitable scriptural evidence, is that Jesus' body that died on the Cross has risen and returned to life and after 40 days ascended to heaven. Period. Thus, by presenting the impossible possibility in your question as a real possibility, you commit the mentioned error of the "complex question". – Levan Gigineishvili Sep 21 '20 at 13:25
  • @LevanGigineishvili whether the seed resurrected and then germinated or its contents germinated directed, it’s still the seed in both cases. It’s only a matter or timing and the question is not about the timing portion it’s whether the seed is the same seed and we agree it’s the same seed. The details of timing as aforementioned was asked by another person and already answered on this stack. I’m not asking that question which you are addressing, though logically so not necessarily so as this question doesn’t require it. – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 21 '20 at 15:03
  • @NihilSineDeo I am not a botanics expert and cannot go into this germination thing, but, again, the "complex question" logical fallacy remains because it just cannot be not the "same seed", for otherwise you permit an impossible possibility that resurrection c a n happen not in the body in which a person lived. But this is absolutely to be ruled out, both in case of Jesus and in case of other men who all will be risen in the End of History. By including this possibility into a question, you make an information that is not at all permissible to sneak stealthily into mind of a listener. – Levan Gigineishvili Sep 22 '20 at 05:05
  • @NihilSineDeo I think, your mistake comes from the fact that you distinguish and separate two bodies: i) a resurrected body and ii) a glorious/spiritual body. But this is a gross mistake! The glorious/spiritual body is the same resurrected body transformed by divine grace. On Mt.Thabor Transfiguration, before even His resurrection, Jesus showed to disciples His material body's glorious or spiritual fashion. The mortal is invested or clothed in immortality, not substituted by any other immortal body (1 Cor. 15:54). – Levan Gigineishvili Sep 22 '20 at 05:16
  • @LevanGigineishvili That’s very interesting, appreciate your comments. If I can sum up what I got from your comment based on 1C15:54 the human body takes on qualities/properties that are essentially spiritual, such as immortality, in which case angels have these “garments” and their bodies are therefore able to be both physical and walk through walls, disappear. It’s like a special cloak. Then the follow up question to this question is the same, at what point did Jesus take on that cloak given He reentered His own body? Before or after Mary Magdalene’s encounter. – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 22 '20 at 10:35
  • @NihilSineDeo Sorry, but you keep stepping on the same rake, committing the same fallacy of the "complex question", because I would never admit your "cloak theory". The Incarnate Logos could make His physical body walk on water while living (not any lesser miracle than going through walls!), or make it shine like a sun on Mt. Tabor, what cloak? Why to overload scripture with those non-scriptural concepts? An analogy: when I lewdly lust for a naked girl, that is a sinful desire, but when I turn this desire through Grace to a chaste love, then the same desire is clad in Grace and immortalised. – Levan Gigineishvili Sep 22 '20 at 21:05
  • I don’t buy your argument that Jesus walked on water because of His body, Peter did too. It wasn’t His body it was the Holy Spirit that did these things through that body. It was the Spirit “cloaking” that body with power. – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 22 '20 at 21:19
  • Let's go to chat, that to keep the decorum of this site – Levan Gigineishvili Sep 22 '20 at 21:24
  • Let us continue this discussion in chat. – Levan Gigineishvili Sep 22 '20 at 21:24
-2

We must first establish what body he began with - scripture shows...

Heb 2:17 He had to be made like His brethren in all things

Jesus is the second Adam (human) v14 therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil.

So we're human - Jesus had to be human too.

He said, 'I am a man who has told you the truth' John 8:40 (was Jesus lying - did he not know he was the eternally living 'God the Son'?)

Which brings us to the Lamb of God - Rev 5:13, 6:16, 7:9, 7:10, 21:22 a sample of verses showing the Lamb is not God, and God is not the Lamb.

Jesus is a man, born of the flesh through Mary, given the holy spirit at baptism (as we are as a deposit only), and died for the sins of the world, remained dead for 3 days until his Father/God raised him.

The bible presents no support for a God/man who is an immortal God who can die. He is either immortal or he is not.

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God 1 Tim 1:17

Jesus was raised to life where he COULD NOT DIE AGAIN.

knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. Rom 6:9

Why does Paul make such a big deal about Jesus being raised from the dead if he was just a pretend temporary body - as the eternal 'God the Son' cannot die? 1 Cor 15

If God, who, 'so loved the world', did indeed 'send His only begotten son' (John 3:16) to die - then we either believe Jesus was a human or something other that only 1/2 died. Notice it is GOD sending his son - not the Father sending His son.

Why does Jesus inherit all things if he allegedly made everything? Why does the last Adam become a life-giving spirit if he already was? Why, if the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself, if Jesus had it all along? John 5:26 Why is Jesus exalted to 'God's' right hand and given the promised holy spirit to distribute if he was God the Son?

All this to show that Jesus was a man. There is consistent and unequivocal support for this truth.

For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit 1 Pet 3:18

Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit

Jesus...will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. Phil 3:21

So we still have bodies - just as Jesus did and does saying,

‘See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; touch me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.’ Luke 24:39

Did Jesus’ spirit return to His old crucified body?

It is an odd Q, with 'return' included. This is ambiguous. Where did Jesus go when he died? Into the tomb where he remained. He was 'awakened' by God and given not the human spirit again, but a new spirit life that cannot die. But yes, and he still has the same body as he expressed. Just as we will have our bodies, but transformed in glory.

We must not confuse being a spirit - like God and angels, with being a transformed human who is reborn by or into the spirit. see more here,

What does the risen Jesus mean, 'for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have'. Luke 24:39?

Steve
  • 1
  • 1
  • 15
  • 45
  • 1
    You’ve dealt with Trinity and little to none (fourth last paragraph) with the question at hand. You’re not persuasive about your anti-Trinitarian rhetoric either. Your argument is so weak it as if you’re arguing humans don’t have a spirit in their bodies. This is off topic – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 19 '20 at 00:26
  • Being persuasive is not for me - God opens hearts and minds. – Steve Sep 19 '20 at 01:13
  • -1 You misstate the meaning of ὁμοιόω in Hebrews. – Revelation Lad Sep 19 '20 at 01:37
  • oh, how so? elaboration might be useful. – Steve Sep 19 '20 at 02:37
  • What do you mean by ‘human’? – Dave Sep 19 '20 at 02:52
  • If you are human, you'll know what I mean. – Steve Sep 19 '20 at 02:54
  • @NihilSineDeo it's hardly off topic as you don't define what 'the same old body' was! I defined what it was and wasn't (as comparison) by scripture. – Steve Sep 19 '20 at 03:14
  • @user48152 the question is not about why or why not Jesus is God, but if after He resurrected His spirit entered the same body that His spirit left when He gave up His spirit into the Father’s hand. I’m sorry but if you don’t answer the question, you are off the topic at hand. – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 19 '20 at 03:29
  • Also Dave asked you a question. I think he genuinely seeks an answer. – Nihil Sine Deo Sep 19 '20 at 03:31
  • @NihilSineDeo I understand the Q - clearly you didn't put much effort in with the 'washed and embalmed', so I was forced to clarify what I was answering. To show that Jesus is human and not something other is important if we are to determine what body he is raised with. I answered Dave's Q 1 minute after he asked! – Steve Sep 19 '20 at 03:54
  • 1
    Here’s my point. If? you mean ‘human’ is ‘flesh’, or even if flesh is a ‘part’ of a ‘human’, then you will have to deal with this - 1 COR 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.. When Jesus appeared to the disciples, there is only a mention of his body having ‘flesh and bone’, [not blood], whereas all other references to man, the descriptor is ‘flesh and blood’ – Dave Sep 19 '20 at 04:27
  • Yes that's quite true. If the life is in the blood, then that is the life that can die, when Jesus was raised in the spirit, his mortal body is now immortal. same body - but transformed to have a different life force. (This was noted in the link answer) We are not told otherwise - unless you have more references to 'what' Jesus is now - that fits with everything else we read. If Jesus says, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life', we have to believe he isn't trying to trick or mislead purposely. – Steve Sep 19 '20 at 06:17
  • 1
    So, ... then, the resurrected body is not the same. It is not ‘human’? – Dave Sep 19 '20 at 18:01
  • I don't know what yr driving at. God made humans (to be) in His image - why when 'made alive in spirit', would they be other. Jesus the 2nd Adam is just like us. Maybe define what you think human is - any scriptural objections to my position appreciated. – Steve Sep 20 '20 at 04:22