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On a very recent question on French.SE, the question starts out with:

On m’a fait remarquer, [...], que

I thought this meant "People made me notice, [..], that,.." or "I was made to notice, [..], that..". But DeepL instead said that it meant "It was pointed out to me, [..], that".

I then checked WordReference Dictionary, and indeed, there is an entry for the expression "faire remarquer [qch] à [qqn]", meaning "point [something] out to [somebody]". (This makes me uneasy, because it makes it much more difficult to know if causative faire is being used, or if instead an expression is being used!)

I'm curious, though, could expressions like this ever be understood as causative faire, instead of their normal expression meaning? That is, could "On m'a fait remarquer que" ever be understood to mean "People made me notice that"? Or does the existence of "faire remarquer [qch] à [qqn]" make that impossible?

Edit: I admit that "[Someone] made me notice that ..." and "[Someone] pointed out to me that .." are close in meaning, but for me, the former is much broader, and that someone pointing something out to me is a specific way that I'm made to notice something.

For example, the following sentences show how I can be made to notice something, without someone pointing anything out to me:

  1. I used to think that listening to emotions was useless, and that giving solutions and good advice was how to be a good friend. But my all my therapist did was listen to my emotions. Her helping me in this way made me notice that whenever coworkers listened to me without trying to change anything, I found my own solutions.

  2. Normally I don't pay attention to the other people on the subway. But yesterday on my commute home, the subway broke down for an hour. This made me notice the other people riding with me for the first time in a long time; they were just as stressed as I felt.

  3. Like, omigod, I keep trying to say hello to the cute guy in math class and flirt with him, but I don't think he even knows I exist! How can I make him notice me??!!

Edit: This webpage is a French grammar website (written in English) that explains the grammatical concept of "Causative Faire construction".

jlliagre
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silph
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  • People speaking french usually don't know what causatif is (including me, I had to look it up in the dictionnary)... – XouDo Feb 01 '22 at 15:41
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    2/ Maybe it's because I'm French, but I don't really see much difference between "People made me notice ... that" and "It was pointed out (by people) to me ... that". – XouDo Feb 01 '22 at 15:57
  • faire remarquer quelque chose à quelqu'un is to point something out to someone. But there is more than one way to translate it. It depends on context. "Make someone notice" is a possibility also. Bear in mind the causative verbs (make, get, etc.) are an English category, not a French one. None of this can be tied up in neat little boxes. – Lambie Feb 01 '22 at 16:42
  • @Lambie: 1) the "cauastive faire" construction is something I see all the time, but still have trouble understanding. The French grammar websites (written in English, for the learners of French language) make it sound like "causative faire" is indeed a French grammar concept? 2) could you give me some example sentences where "make someone notice" is indeed a likely interpretation? That might help me. – silph Feb 01 '22 at 20:33
  • French uses faire in many, many ways: faire remarquer, faire voir, faire faire, se faire, se faire faire, faire visiter, etc. etc. It's impossible to cover all of it. remarquer is to remark or notice or point out. faire plus many action verbs is common. "Je voulais me faire remarquer par le jeune homme près du piano. I wanted to make the young man near the piano notice me. See? :) Notice the difference in structure here. – Lambie Feb 01 '22 at 20:39
  • @Lambie suppose a French language learner (ie, me!) continues to be confused by the many uses of faire (which i am). you say that it's impossible to cover all of it in an explanation. how do you think learners finally learn the uses? i wish there was some structured way to hasten the understanding (ie, which is why i like grammar wesbites). i suppose the best i can do is continue asking questions, sentence-by-sentence. p.s. your example sentence gives me a lot to think about, but i might ask a separate question about my thoughts on that once i identify more clearly my confusions about it. – silph Feb 02 '22 at 00:48
  • First of all, please use a capital letter for the pronoun I. :) You can always start with the dictionary: https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/faire/32701 You might want to find a grammar book for advanced learners and proceed step by step. – Lambie Feb 02 '22 at 15:01
  • @Lambie i often type with lowercase letters for things that normally would be in upper case; in my case, the beginning of sentences, and the pronoun "I" tend to be typed in lowercase, and with Proper Nouns i sometimes still use uppercase to make them stand out as important. it's a stylistic choice that has a connotation of relaxed speech that maybe 1 or 2 % of the people on the Internet use. i know that this will irritate you when you read my comments, but i'm not going to stop doing so, so i hope you will tolerate my need to type in my own style in the comments. – silph Feb 02 '22 at 17:06
  • This and other sites on SE are language sites, so the least one can do is respect the actual languages. As for the Internet, even in text messaging people use upper case. A lower case i, for the pronoun I does not "connote" relaxed speech. As for proper nouns in all caps, that too is weird. – Lambie Feb 02 '22 at 17:48
  • Let us continue this discussion in chat. – Lambie Feb 02 '22 at 18:50

1 Answers1

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On m'a fait remarquer que... is almost a fixed expression so it is always understood to mean "It was pointed out to me".

With other verbs, we can see many meanings this form might have in French:

On m'a fait sortir de la voiture : I was taken out of the car (On m'a sorti de la voiture) / They made me get out of the car (Ils m'ont fait sortir de la voiture).
On m'a fait sortir la voiture : They made me take the car out.
On m'a fait sortir les bagages de la voiture : [I was made to|They made me] take the luggage out of the car.
On m'a fait sortir de mes gonds : They upset me.

J'ai fait chanter mon voisin : "I made my neighbor sing" or "I blackmailed my neighbor".
J'ai fait chanter une chanson : I had a song sung.

As XouDo rightly commented, the fact they both translates to the same form in French makes us not to perceive that much a difference between "People made me notice ... that" and "It was pointed out (by people) to me ... that".

Her helping me in this way made me notice that whenever coworkers listened to me without trying to change anything, I found my own solutions. → Qu'elle m'aide de cette façon m'a fait me rendre compte (or m'a fait remarquer) qu'à chaque fois que mes collègues m'écoutaient sans essayer de changer quoi que ce soit, je trouvais mes propres solutions.

This made me notice the other people riding with me for the first time in a long time; they were just as stressed as I felt. → Ça m'a fait remarquer les (or me rendre compte de la condition des) autres voyageurs pour la première fois depuis un bon moment; ils étaient aussi stressés que moi.

How can I make him notice me??!! → Comment faire pour qu'il me remarque ??!! (Comment lui faire remarquer ma présence/mon intérêt/ma personne ?/ Comment faire pour qu'il se rende compte de mon intérêt pour lui ?)

See also:
How to properly utilize the causative “have” in French?
Why is there a second 'faire' in 'Je voudrais vous faire faire une radiographie.'?

jlliagre
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  • i understand the four examples you gave here; the (long) website i linked to shows the many subtle variations that the "causative faire" form can be in. i am still confused about your paragraph about French people not perceiving that much difference between "people made me notice that" and "people pointed out to me that". in the three example sentences in the first Edit of my post, could "faire remarquer" be used, even though none of those three example sentences mean "to point something out"? – silph Feb 02 '22 at 01:57
  • this is almost off topic, but it might really help me: could you list some common "faire + verb" expressions? i'm curious if all "faire + verb" expressions have a very similar meaning to a "causative faire" meaning, or if some "faire + verb" expressions actually have a very different meaning to a "causative faire" meaning? – silph Feb 02 '22 at 01:59
  • "Made me notice" translates to m'a fait me rendre compte que but yes, faire remarquer could also be used in these sentences. About a non causative faire (at least I guess so), there is the expression faire chanter that means "to blackmail". – jlliagre Feb 02 '22 at 02:06
  • so, i could use m'a fait me rendre compte que in the three example sentences in my edit? and, are you saying that most "faire + verb" expressions do indeed overlap with "causative faire"? – silph Feb 02 '22 at 02:09
  • Sorry, I edited my comment while you were writing. Both rendre compte en faire remarquer could be used. – jlliagre Feb 02 '22 at 02:10
  • could you put the info in your last comment into your answer? (and, optionally -- if you are willing to put in the effort -- to write the three sentences with rendre compte and then with faire remarquer). it's an important point (ie that faire remarquer doesn't necessarily mean "point something out to somebody") that i'll want to notice when i re-read my question in a few months, and i always worry that comments will disappear! – silph Feb 02 '22 at 02:16
  • so, i am able to use faire remarquer in sentence #1, too, instead of the faire rendre compte that you wrote? and, i am able to use faire rendre compte in sentences #2 and #3, instead of the faire remarquer that you used? – silph Feb 02 '22 at 02:22
  • make me notice is most definitely not: m'a fait me rendre compte. se rendre compte is not notice. make me notice: me faire remarquer. "On m'a fait sortir de la voiture : I was taken out of the car"=No. The proper translation is: They made me get out of the car. – Lambie Feb 02 '22 at 15:04
  • @Lambie Se rendre compte (= the anglicism réaliser) and remarquer meanings are indeed not identical but they overlap and IMHO are both usable in the OP sentence. Yes, "they made me get out" is closer, answer updated. – jlliagre Feb 02 '22 at 16:09