Why do some English speakers have different starting pronunciations of station and sun? Station is pronounced as e-station while sun simply as sun. Is the difference due to the fact that the second letter is a vowel in sun but not in station?
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1I think this question is not for down vote – RTA Jun 15 '12 at 08:28
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3But station and sun do both start with the same letter s sound. – Andrew Leach Jun 15 '12 at 08:37
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4Could you provide a more clear example? – avramov Jun 15 '12 at 08:38
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@andrew IMHO: sound is different that is station starts with "e-station" and sun sounds as "sun" simply. – RTA Jun 15 '12 at 08:40
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7I would like to know where you get the impression that station starts with an "e-" sound when vocalized. I've never heard it that way; moreover, my dictionary's pronunciation guides don't show any vowel sound at the beginning of the word. – J.R. Jun 15 '12 at 08:44
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4@RTA - This is an excellent question; but it sounds like a regionalism to me. Are the people who insert a vowel at the start of "station" native speakers of English? If not, you could probably ignore the difference. – Jun 15 '12 at 09:01
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@David I really could not understand why i am getting down vote but feeling good as you admire it. it have certainly difference in sound that i want to raise out. – RTA Jun 15 '12 at 09:23
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@Jasper yes i got it. – RTA Jun 15 '12 at 09:38
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@Jasper o no you are not understanding it. I think David have got it. i just mean with station and sun that they have difference in sound pronunciation for letter 's'. is it such hard to understand what i want to say? – RTA Jun 15 '12 at 09:39
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3RTA: It's not "hard to understand," but it's very puzzling. For one, I've never heard the first part of the word station pronounced any differently than the "s" in sun. For example, listen to the first few seconds of this video: where is the "e-"? Secondly, what do you mean by the "E-" sound? Is that the long "e" (as in "bee") or the short "e" (as in "pet")? Note: I wanted to get a clip of "we now pause for station identification," (which I've heard all my life) but I couldn't find one! – J.R. Jun 15 '12 at 10:04
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forget the 'e'. is their any difference in {school,stand,station} in compare of {sunday,sun, sound} in term of sound of pronunciation? – RTA Jun 15 '12 at 10:19
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No. there is NO difference in the S-sound of any of those words. In "Spanish" they seem to prohibit Starting Syllables 'S'. The say "es-" before it instead. So Spanish speaking people would perhaps say something that sounded like es-station. They think the name "Scott" is very funny when I say it! They say something that sounds like "Es-Gott". – Jun 24 '16 at 19:09
3 Answers
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The only people who pronounce station (or scale or school) with a leading e sound before the s are those who cannot pronounce a “liquid s”; that is, native Spanish speakers.
Which is why they say estación ( and escala and escuela), at least when speaking Spanish.
Because of this, sometimes when native Spanish (or Portuguese) speakers speak English, they introduce an epenthetic e at the front of words beginning with an s that is followed by a consonant. They do this so they can split up the consonant cluster, placing the s at the end of a new first syllable, and the other consonant at the start of the next one.
They also do this when borrowing English words into Spanish. So English stress becomes Spanish estrés, just as English standard becomes Spanish estándar. Notice they drop the d at the end, because they can’t say an rd at the end. They can’t say most consonants at the end of a syllable, actually. That’s why when they say the borrowed word stop, this comes out sounding like estó, estod (IPA /esˈtoð/), or estoz (IPA /esˈtoθ/) — and sometimes even estof. Since they can’t have a final p either, they have to substitute in something that works for them.
It may be that native speakers of other languages also introduce an epenthetic s at the front of English station. However, this is not a standard pronunciation, and would mark you for a non-native speaker.
tchrist
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I was very confused when I first heard this question, but now I understand. Great answer. I'm ecstatic that you cleared the estatic. – J.R. Jun 15 '12 at 16:31
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+1 You might find it interesting that a lot of people in parts of India introduce an epenthetic i at the beginning of words like school, skin and space (ɪskuːl, ɪskɪn, ɪspeɪs). This happens although many native Indian languages have words starting with the s sound followed by a consonant sound (they pronounce the epenthetic i in their native languages as well). For me to understand this phenomenon, I suppose I will have to delve into the origins of native Indian languages. – Tragicomic Oct 04 '15 at 04:52
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I think I might find that Indian languages spoken by the "common people" either didn't have such sounds originally or had the i sound at the beginning of such words, and that words with these sounds were introduced by the intelligentsia or ruling elite (just guesswork at this point). – Tragicomic Oct 04 '15 at 04:53
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1@Tragicomic Quite likely it happened the same way as in Spanish (and Portuguese, Catalan, French, etc.—basically all the West Romance areas): the words started out having /sC/, and then at some point, the community of speakers collectively decided that that was too much of a bother to pronounce, so they started adding prop vowels. (I believe Turkish also tends to add /i-/, while Finnish does the opposite and drops as many consonants as needed; the Swedish loan words strand and president, for instance, become ranta and residentti, though the latter mostly presidentti nowadays.) – Janus Bahs Jacquet Oct 13 '15 at 18:18
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If you look up the official pronunciation of 'sun' and 'station' you get respectively
- sun - /sʌn/
- station - /ˈsteɪʃən/
with no notated difference. No standard or dialectal variety of English has any difference either.
But it is the case in many foreign languages that they do not allow the complicated consonant cluster of /s/ followed by a harder consonant, or some change is needed to the /s/. Then this gives a sound change when they try to speak English.
This is especially true of Spanish where there are many close cognate words or borrowings from the same source (Latin). For example:
school (En) - escuela (Sp)
This is a pattern for 's' followed by 't', 'p', or 'k'. There is a tendency for native Spanish speakers to naturally say the English word 'school' as 'ehs-kool', which is closer to their own native pronunciation.
In Japanese, because any consonant pair is forbidden, they tend to put a vowel -between- an English word that has two consonants 'suh- koo -luh' (and a vowel at the end.
So I suspect that the 'estation' pronunciation that you are hearing is from a non-native speaker of English that speaks a native lanaguage that treats 'st' differently than English. No native variety of English has a difference between 'sun' and 'station' for 's'.
The 't' in 'station' is a whole nother story.
Mitch
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The Brazilians are also wont to insert epenthetic
/i/into spoken words, and they do so in places where a Portuguese person (=from Portugal) or a Spaniard would not feel any need to. For example, say they don’t like a dv cluster, so in goes an i (which now also triggers palatalization), and the word adverso may come out/adʒiˈvɛχsu/for them. This somewhat reminds me of Japanese in this regard. – tchrist Jun 15 '12 at 13:25 -
I've heard a similar tendency from my Korean friends, who tend to add an extra vowel sound at end of words with complex blends (particularly when they ask me to go to "lunchie"). (That was the first thing I thought of when I read the O.P.'s question, but I couldn't put 2 and 2 together. Thanks for the explanation.) – J.R. Jun 15 '12 at 16:35
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@Mitch you have mentioned three letters 't','p','k' only these three, but i think many word like 'scam' which is followed by 'c' is also the similar case. – RTA Jun 18 '12 at 05:22
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2@RTA: in English, 'c' after 's' is either silent or the same sound as 'k', so you wouldn't consider that a new case. Those three, p, t, k, are the only 'unvoiced stops' in English. – Mitch Jun 18 '12 at 11:17
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@Mitch good one , +10 for capturing the right nerves of question while i was getting a lots of down vote in the beginning. – RTA Jun 18 '12 at 11:21
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In Ireland, it's common to stick a vowel between some consonants that would require that in Irish, even among people who haven't had a native Irish speaker in their ancestry for several generations. Hence some don't even realise why they say film with two syllables, or that it's not pronounced that way elsewhere. – Jon Hanna Feb 14 '13 at 01:57
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And of course, English speakers do the opposite when they borrow words from Greek, knocking off part of words that begin with X or PT. – Jon Hanna Feb 14 '13 at 02:00
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@user126158 There is no consonant cluster, so "sun" is unproblematic for Spanish speakers. It's when the s is followed by another (plosive) consonant. – tripleee Nov 17 '16 at 06:10
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Station doesn't begin with an “e” sound, it starts with an “s” sound, just like sun.
Here's how the Oxford English Dictionary says they should be pronounced:
/ˈsteɪʃən/st - ay - sh - ə - n
IPA Sounds like
stst as in stay, post (main stress)eɪay as in bayʃsh as in shop, dishəə as in another (schwa)nn as in nine
/sʌn/s - u - n
IPA Sounds like
ss as in seeʌu as in butter, upsetnn as in nine
Although note the ˈ mark in /ˈsteɪʃən/ and not in /sʌn/. This symbol is placed before the stressed syllable.
