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I am referring of course to the expression describing time. Today a corporate trainer (From north Philadelphia) that is teaching a class at my company used it in the context that the current time was 'ten of six' (5:50PM), but I have always thought of it as 'ten of six' (6:10PM). Which usage is correct?

tchrist
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bakoyaro
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    5;50, I've heard as "ten (minutes) to six"... I have to say that sounds peculiar to my ears. –  Dec 14 '10 at 04:19
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    @J. M.: when I first came to the States, I found "of" so awkward and hard to get used to! – Jimi Oke Dec 14 '10 at 04:27
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    Hmm, wow, I think I was ambiguous in that last comment; I wanted to say that "to" is what I was accustomed to, and "of" is what sounds peculiar to me. –  Dec 14 '10 at 04:33
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    @J. M.: Yes! Initially, I thought the opposite and posted my rejoinder right away! Upon rereading your comment, though, I realized you meant "of" is what sounds peculiar to you. However, I decided my comment was still appropriate, even though with a slightly different intent than when I originally posted it! But it's quite interesting that you picked on that! – Jimi Oke Dec 14 '10 at 05:21
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    by any chance, is it ten "off" six but it sounds like ten "of" six – JoseK Dec 14 '10 at 09:37
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    @JoseK: I have never heard the "ten off six". English speakers sometimes confuse "of" and "off" in writing, but I don't think they are ever confused in speech. – Colin Fine Dec 14 '10 at 14:26
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    @JoseK: It's definitely "ten of six". – Jimi Oke Dec 14 '10 at 14:51
  • @Colin Fine: Agreed - but tbh, I've never heard "ten of six" or seen it written - it's always "ten to six" as others have pointed out, but then I've never been to the US. – JoseK Dec 14 '10 at 15:33
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    @bakoyaro: Glad you posted the location. Definitely commonly used here on the East Coast. – Jimi Oke Dec 16 '10 at 07:03
  • I'm from east coast USA and I've heard neither "ten of six" nor "ten off six." It's usually "ten 'till six" or "ten after six." – Adam Jan 20 '11 at 02:16
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    I grew up in that area and that would have been the common usage; to/till was not used as much. Incidentally, all of these are moot when it comes to communication with my kids (late teens). They grew up with digital clocks. – JeffSahol Sep 16 '11 at 16:50
  • @ColinFine How can you know people don't confuse 'of' and 'off' in speech when you can't really hear the difference? :p – Svish Oct 22 '12 at 13:08
  • @Svish: I cannot think of a context in which I would not expect to hear the difference. Off is [ɔf], with a voiceless consonant and an unreduced vowel, even when unstressed. Of is usually [əv], with a voiced consonant and a reduced vowel; and even when stressed it is [ɔv]. They are simply not confusable, to me or (I believe0 to native English speakers in general. – Colin Fine Oct 23 '12 at 12:21
  • @ColinFine: I'm not a native English speaker, so maybe that's why I don't really hear the difference. At least never thought of them sounding different when listening to people speaking English on TV or IRL :) – Svish Oct 23 '12 at 13:13

5 Answers5

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As others have said, "ten of six", though not used in many English speaking areas, would be understood as 5:50.

Nowhere in the English-speaking world, as far as I know, would it be understood as 5:10. I can imagine that Russian speakers, for example, might hear it that way, as it might be taken as a translation of the Russian "десять шестого" (/d'es'at' ʃestovo/ = "ten of the sixth") which does mean 5:10.

(A similar 'false friend' is "half six", which in British English means 6:30, but looks like a translation of German "halb sechs", which means 5:30.)

Colin Fine
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    I'd say "half past six" for 6:30 to avoid ambiguity myself... on the other hand, one never hears "half to six". :D –  Dec 14 '10 at 13:23
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    You meant to write 6:10 instead of 5:10, I suppose? – Tsuyoshi Ito Dec 14 '10 at 13:39
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    Russian is a good example, but certain German dialects also have "viertel sechs" (quater six) and "drei viertel sechs" (three quarters six), meaning 5:15 and 5:45. This usage is limited to Bavaria, Franconia, Silesia, Swabia, and certain parts of Palatinate and Austria. Native German speakers from elsewhere will (at best) identify it as a Bavarian or Austrian accent, or (at worst) not understand it at all. ("Halb sechs", on the other hand, is universal to all flavours of German I am familiar with.) – RegDwigнt Dec 14 '10 at 13:48
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    @Tsuyoshi: nope, it's 5:10, "ten minutes of the sixth hour". (6:10 would be ten minutes of the seventh.) – RegDwigнt Dec 14 '10 at 13:53
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    @RegDwight: Interesting. Just to clarify, I had been confused by the sentence “Nowhere in the English-speaking world, as far as I know, would it be understood as 5:10,” because the time 5:10 appeared out of the blue. – Tsuyoshi Ito Dec 14 '10 at 14:00
  • @Tsuyoshi - you're right, and I misread that part of the original question. I thought the OP had said "5:10", and was giving a reason why somebody might think that. – Colin Fine Dec 14 '10 at 14:25
  • @RegDwight: anyone who refers to 5:00 as the sixth hour deserves to be shot. :) – Mr. Shiny and New 安宇 Dec 14 '10 at 14:26
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    @Mr Shiny: from 5:00 to 6:00 is assuredly the sixth hour, just as between my 54th and 55th birthday is my 55th year. – Colin Fine Dec 14 '10 at 14:27
  • @Mr. Shiny and New: I am not aware of any Russian or German who would refer to 5:00 as the sixth hour. However, at 5:01, it's one minute of the next hour that has passed, which would be the sixth. – RegDwigнt Dec 14 '10 at 14:29
  • @RegDwight: It makes sense in a way, but I still don't like it. Maybe because I'm a programmer and I'm used to zero-based counting :) – Mr. Shiny and New 安宇 Dec 14 '10 at 14:40
  • @Mr. Shiny: please correct me if I understand you wrong, but doesn't it make sense precisely because of zero-based counting? As in, 5:10 is ten minutes of the sixth hour precisely because the midnight is at 0:00, and not at 1:00 (in which case 5:10 would be ten minutes of the fifth). – RegDwigнt Dec 14 '10 at 14:46
  • @RegDwight: if midnight is 00:00, and 00:01 is the first hour, then the hours are counted one-based even if they're numbered zero-based. – Mr. Shiny and New 安宇 Dec 14 '10 at 14:49
  • @Mr. Shiny: ah, thanks a bunch, you're right. Then again, as Colin Fine has pointed out, birthdays are counted the same way. We actually celebrate the number of completed years rather than that of birthdays, the actual birthday is never included in the count even though it is the birthdayest of all birthdays we will ever have. – RegDwigнt Dec 14 '10 at 14:56
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    Hungarian uses negyed hat "quarter six" = 5:15, fél hat "half six" = 5:30, and háromnegyed hat "three-quarters six" = 5:45. As a child, I remember how hard it was to learn this, because it made no sense to me to say "six" when the clock said 5. – Marthaª Dec 14 '10 at 14:58
  • @RegDwight: For birthdays, one way to think about it is how the French call it: anniversary. That is, we are counting the anniversaries of your (one and only) birthday. I've never ever thought about time that way... And don't get started into how the Chinese count birthdays. – Mr. Shiny and New 安宇 Dec 14 '10 at 15:01
  • @Mr.Shiny: “anyone who refers to 5:00 as the sixth hour deserves to be shot. :)” What do you think of people who referred to 5:00 as rabbit? :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_zodiac#Hours – Tsuyoshi Ito Dec 14 '10 at 16:32
  • @Tsuyoshi Ito: Yeah, that's pretty odd. – Mr. Shiny and New 安宇 Dec 14 '10 at 20:28
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    @RegDwight: I realize it's been a year since you said that, but it's something I find oddly fascinating, so just in case anyone is still interested: "viertel/dreiviertel sechs" is also common throughout East Germany (there's a map, too). – Jan Sep 16 '11 at 16:56
  • FWIW, "half six" meaning 5:30 is the same in Czech (literal translation of "půl šesté" is "half of six") and similar expressions for 5:15 ("čtvrt na šest" - "quarter to six") and 5:45 ("tři čtvrtě na šest" - "three quarters to six") referencing explicitly the following hour while counting from the already completed one. It's very likely geographically and historically rooted in certain regions (in this case central Europe at least), rather than specific languages. – peterph Jul 01 '15 at 08:30
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In American English, using "of" when telling the time denotes the number minutes before the upcoming hour. Thus, "ten of six" would mean 5:50 p.m. As another example, "quarter of three" would be 2:45 p.m.

In the British, "to" is used instead of "of". Thus, 5:50 p.m. would be "ten to six" and 2:45 p.m. would be "quarter to three". Americans also use "to" when telling the time.)

To indicate the minutes following the hour, "after" or "past" is used. Thus, 6:10 p.m. would be expressed as "ten past six" or "ten after six". I'm of the opinion that "past" is more commonly used in British strains, while "after" is mostly American.

While most people just say the numbers these days, e.g. "six-ten", "five-fifty", etc, "ten of--" is still quite popular, as well as "five of--", though to a lesser degree. You probably would not hear "twenty of--" or "twenty-five of--" too often.

Jimi Oke
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    The pair I'm used to is "to" and "past". Thanks for this, I didn't know about this use of "of" until now. –  Dec 14 '10 at 04:27
  • Americans also use "to" and "till", probably more often than "of" (although I am sure it varies regionally) – Peter Shor Sep 07 '11 at 13:01
  • "to-of," and "after-past" are probably very nearly parity in frequency in my part of the US, with "till" lagging a little behind. – horatio Sep 16 '11 at 17:04
  • I think the prevalence of digital clocks are causing a shift to stating the time as "5:50" rather than "10 to 6". With a digital clock, that's a direct reading. With an old-style clock, it's very natural to say "10 to 6" as a description of the relative positions of the clock's hands. – Jay Dec 20 '11 at 16:41
  • @Jay: But the funny thing is folks are less inclined to wear watches on their wrists these days (possibly due to the prevalence of cellphones). And for those who do, many are analog. So, for instance, you're cracking a physics problem set in the common room, and all there is to tell the time is a big clock in the middle of the room. Most classrooms still have regular clocks. And since few have digital watches (except die-hard runners), phrases like "10 of 6" will continue to prevail, especially in New England... – Jimi Oke Dec 20 '11 at 18:04
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    @Jimi: "few have digital watches except die-hard runners"? I haven't owned an analog watch in decades, and I am not at all athletic. Last time I bought a new watch, about 90% of the models available were digital. I'd be interested to see a survey, bu tI thought the overwhelming majority of watches today were digital. Wall clocks -- yes, most of those that I see are analog. – Jay Dec 21 '11 at 15:19
  • "of" is commonly used in America. Without benefit of any survey or study, just anecdotally, I think it's most often used when saying it is 15 minutes before the hour, as in "quarter of six". For other times "to" is more common, "ten to six", etc, but "of" is readily used and understood. – Jay Dec 21 '11 at 15:22
  • @Jay: you'll be surprised about the watches. (I'm a diehard runner myself, hence the comment!) Anyway, I just said that tongue-in-cheek. Don't know what the reality is. I'm not saying "of" is not commonly used in America, but I daresay it's more prevalent in NE. We used "of" for all possible times: "ten of" and "five of" were quite common. "Twenty of" less so... Interesting though. It would be nice to have some real regional data. One simply guesses from experience and exposure. – Jimi Oke Dec 21 '11 at 16:48
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For the origins of "ten of six", searching Google books shortly after 1800, which is when this expression seems to have originated, I came across quite a few uses of expressions such as

It wants ten minutes of six.

which makes more sense than just "ten of six", and is a cumbersome enough expression that one can see how it might be shortened to "ten of six". Such expressions seem to have been used both in the U.K. and the U.S., but (if this was indeed the origin of the phrase) were only shortened in the U.S.

Peter Shor
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"Ten of six" probably means 5:50 but I have not heard it before.

"Ten [shy] of six" would necessarily mean "Ten less than six"

The other time prepositions,

after, past, to
such as

0-30 minutes

(6:05) 5 after 6

(6:25) 25 past 6

31-59 minutes

(6:50) 10 to 7

(8:55) 5 'til 9 or 5 until 9

I'm an American and I have not heard "of" used before in conversation (ever), but I would never associate it with the 0-30 minutes range. To me it must mean "until"

sova
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    @sova: I think it depends on where you are from. I lived in New England for four years and using "of" was standard practice in the area. In fact, I never heard "to" in the context of time. Nevertheless, any standard American dictionary will include this usage among the definitions of the word "of". – Jimi Oke Dec 14 '10 at 04:37
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    @Jimi: Fascinating. I figured it might be a regional thing, but using "of" sounds British to my ears. Merriam Webster does indeed cite this as a usage: used as a function word to indicate the position in time of an action or occurrence , however their example "Died of a Monday" absolutely befuddles me. – sova Dec 14 '10 at 04:41
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    @sova: However, I should have also mentioned that "to" is used both in British and American English. I have edited my answer accordingly. – Jimi Oke Dec 14 '10 at 04:41
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    @sova: If you check the Oxford American Dictionaries, though, "of" is defined specifically with regard to its usage in telling the time. Someone may dispute this but, honestly, I don't think "of" is ever used in British English when telling the time. While in NE, I found it interesting that my usage of "to" was confusing to some in those parts! – Jimi Oke Dec 14 '10 at 04:45
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    @Jimi Oke: I think it's worth mentioning that this was definition number 11a out of 12 (only followed by the archaic 'of' which is a replacement for 'on' such as a plague of fools ... or something Shakespearean like that). This is little indication that this is widely accepted. – sova Dec 14 '10 at 04:45
  • @sova: Fair point! However, I think I succeeded in my aim of doing justice to the author's question by establishing that the usage of "of" in telling the time is in the same sense as that of "to". – Jimi Oke Dec 14 '10 at 04:47
  • @sova: Also, I think the placement of that particular definition is more a reflection of that particular usage of the word "of" than it is of its acceptance in comparison with "to", when telling the time. "Of" is first and foremost a preposition of relationship and has many other prominent uses. (Well, in my version, its the last and eighth definition! On the other hand, the corresponding definition of "to" is among the first!) So, I would probably concede that "to" is more common, overall. – Jimi Oke Dec 14 '10 at 04:55
  • @Jimi: Let us not forget that dictionaries simply describe language and do not prescribe it. Old definitions are slow to die, some of them immortal (because dictionaries are for reference no matter what your time period). Again, we don't say "of" in this context here in the Midwest. A survey of some friends (that live in the same region) shows that their thoughts were similar: it's understood to be 5:50 (10 of 6) but it's ambiguous if anything, and definitely uncommon. As far as I know, there are no documents that specifically try and determine (via survey or w/e) usage statistics of words – sova Dec 14 '10 at 05:07
  • @sova: True. I was going to ask what region you reside and I half-guessed the Midwest! But it's mostly "of" here. Probably an East coast thing. It would be interesting to find out where the author of the question heard his "of" expression. Nevertheless, I rest my case amicably :) – Jimi Oke Dec 14 '10 at 05:11
  • @Jimi: Absolutely. I appreciate your insight and I think it's really interesting that that's an established convention in other parts of the country. I once used "of" in this context (as a translation in my head from Arabic) and was scolded for my impropriety. Very interesting that it's actually in the big D book! – sova Dec 14 '10 at 05:31
  • @sova, just to clarify, it isn't a British English usage - in any case one that I've ever heard. Though I guess at a pinch you could say '10 off 6' and be understood. – Benjol Dec 14 '10 at 08:44
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I wonder if this particular construction has anything to do with ratios and how they may have been spoken of in the past. X:X is one way of writing out a ratio, and obviously that's also how time is written as well.

I'm not sure if "of" is any part of talking about ratios--did people ever refer to 5:10 as "10 of 5" or something? The way it's referred to now would be "5 to 10."

Even if this is the case, I don't know how you'd get from 5:50 to "10 of 6" from there. All this just occurred to me, and I thought I'd raise it as an avenue for research or thought.

bikeboy389
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    I don't believe so; one would usually read the ratio "2:1" as "two is to one"... –  Dec 14 '10 at 15:54