UK vs USA grammar, past tense usage of "were stood" and "found…stood" that jars my American mind

Question

One of my favorite authors uses past tenses in the following manner:

Other than Camden and Luke’s cousin Alex, who were stood outside the main doors talking, no one was in sight.

An American would write "... were standing..."
Stood in front of him, Tate folded his arms.

An American would say, "Standing in front..."
Khloé found herself stood in—ah, hell—a basement.

An American would use, "... standing in..."

Is this correct British grammar? Why the difference between regions?

I read sentences like these and my American brain stumbles and hiccups.

You don't fancy telling us who the author is? This question is primarily about "am sat" but also mentions "were stood". — Stuart F, Jan 19 '24 at 18:27
It almost seems like the UK usage is an example of the middle voice, or even a true deponent verb. (Because, as the answers to the other question state, being "sat" somewhere doesn't have to imply someone else "sat" you there.) — Quack E. Duck, Jan 19 '24 at 18:43
Yes, the Brits use "were stood" for "were standing" and "were sat" for "were sitting". It is fine and it is standard in British English, I believe. Funny though for an AmE speaker. I am very surprised by what people say here because I see/hear these forms in series and movies all the time. Am I the only one watching British stuff and listening to the speakers? — Lambie, Jan 19 '24 at 18:44
That doesn't read like conventional UK English. I suspect that stood is used in the sense of "place." A teacher stood the student in the hallway when he wouldn't stop talking. The "were" is to make it passive. — Zan700, Jan 19 '24 at 18:44
It's misleading to present this as AmE and BrE "alternatives". The PP form is extremely informal / dialectal in BrE. But I also have the impression that Brits today are in general less concerned about "correct" grammar than Americans. It's probably relevant that British TV features ever more presenters with strong accents, and there been a huge increase in glottal stops from people telling us the news and weather, in recent years. They'd never have been hired at all a few decades ago, but nowadays, "ordinary people" are much sought after for such jobs. — FumbleFingers, Jan 19 '24 at 18:49
@FumbleFingers Ok, I said standard but it is extremely common in TV shows (police procedurals, for example) and movies. And one thing, FF, is for sure: AmE speakers don't use were sat and were stood over the ing forms at all. Also, re accents, it was time for the British media (TV presenters especially) to get rid of posh, U accents-only presenters. Widening the choice of accents does not necessarily mean poorer grammar. I love all those accents on the BBC, it's charming. — Lambie, Jan 19 '24 at 18:52
(UK) A friend and I have a standing joke that when we hear someone say "I was sat [somewhere]", we both hear our late mothers say "Sitting!" — Kate Bunting, Jan 19 '24 at 18:57
https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/ask_about_english/071231/ Read that blog post. Very good explanation of this: [...] you might be intrigued to learn that regional accents (although not dialects) have become very fashionable in broadcasting, but the announcers do read scripts written in standard English grammar! So good-bye and thank you for the question [...] /I was delighted to see that Brits use: I've went, just like Americans. Of course, very non standard in both! — Lambie, Jan 19 '24 at 19:01
As a BrE speaker, I would say "standing" for a person, but an object might be "stood in a corner" because it was placed there. — Weather Vane, Jan 19 '24 at 19:03
@WeatherVane Yes, that is standard for sure, I now know. BUT it is used colloquially all the time in the UK, as I have said because I have heard and hear it a lot in British movies and TV series. My mother (AmE) would correct me too: I have seen him recently, not I saw him recently. So, mothers can be good carriers of standard grammar. — Lambie, Jan 19 '24 at 19:07
@Lambie i don't think you should answer "Is this correct British grammar?" with "I hear it all the time colloquially." — Weather Vane, Jan 19 '24 at 19:49
@WeatherVane Well, look at the only answer so far. Just opinions from FF and Edwin. I did say that I now see it is not standard but I still say that it is colloquial and very used. Are you Brits embarrassed by this usage? It would seem so. And FF talks about accents. This is not about accents; it's about class prejudice, isn't it? — Lambie, Jan 19 '24 at 20:03
Related: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/449476/is-have-went-gaining-common-currency-in-ame-and-bre — user 66974, Jan 19 '24 at 20:41

score 3 · Answer 1 · answered Jan 19 '24 at 19:18

3

It's misleading to present this as AmE and BrE "alternatives". The PP form is extremely informal / dialectal in 'BrE'. But I also have the impression that Brits today are in general less concerned about "correct" grammar than Americans. It's probably relevant that British TV features ever more presenters with strong accents, and there [has] been a huge increase in glottal stops from people telling us the news and weather, in recent years. They'd never have been hired at all a few decades ago, but nowadays, "ordinary people" are much sought after for such jobs.

– FumbleFingers [minor adjustments]

As for English considered standard in the UK, the Guardian Style Guide has:

We stand for 'standing' and 'sitting' [in such usages] but we will not stand for 'stood' and 'sat'.

So 'Yes, the Brits use "were stood" for "were standing" and "were sat" for "were sitting" ' is a gross overgeneralisation, and 'It is fine and it is standard in British English' just plain wrong.

answered Jan 19 '24 at 19:18

Edwin Ashworth

83,272

https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/ask_about_english/071231/ Teachers correct it but people say it. It is heard all the time on British series and in British movies. It is not an overgeneralization. It's the vox populi. The Guardian has a style guide but the BBC blog post explains its usage. And does not condemn it. Do you think I have bad hearing? – Lambie Jan 19 '24 at 20:01
And this long article: https://random-idea-english.blogspot.com/2013/11/random-thoughts-he-was-sat-she-was-stood.html "But I have to say that personally I find them rather attractive and, like a lot of idiomatic English, an enrichment of the language. The main thing is that when you hear a native speaker say it, don't think they are making an error or are grammatically ignorant: this is a perfectly natural British English expression, albeit one that is not accepted in all quarters." – Lambie Jan 19 '24 at 20:12
1

'In an Oct. 3, 2012, post on the Oxford Dictionaries blog, the lexicographer Catherine Soames notes the increasing nonstandard use of the past participles “sat” and “stood” for the present participles “sitting” and “standing” in British English.' ... Soames, editor or co-editor of several Oxford dictionaries, says [this usage] in continuous, or progressive, tenses is “regarded as non-standard by usage guides.” '. – Edwin Ashworth Jan 19 '24 at 23:27
1

She also says: “The answer’s not clear,” Soames says, “but my research shows that this usage (which used to be restricted to some regional British dialects) is becoming more widespread in British English, and is even appearing in edited writing such as newspapers and magazines.” – Lambie Jan 20 '24 at 14:43
1

@Lambie It is still termed 'nonstandard' in the article. – Edwin Ashworth Jan 20 '24 at 22:35
In the (UK) Guardian, 2nd February 2024, a prosecutor in a London court said, “Miss [Greta] Thunberg was stood outside the hotel entrance.” – David Garner Feb 02 '24 at 07:53
... and in the same article: 'Giving evidence, Sgt Tony Sothinathan of the Met police said Thunberg was standing near to the entrance of the InterContinental Hotel'. The police often find lawyers' words somewhat bewildering. – Edwin Ashworth Feb 02 '24 at 14:56

score 0 · Answer 2 · answered Jan 20 '24 at 04:20

I would understand "he was stood" to indicate there was some decision or compulsion about where he was standing.

"They were stood outside" is a passive voice version of "Somebody or something stood them outside". To "stand somebody" indicates a degree of compulsion, in the same way as to "place somebody" does. Somebody could stand themselves in a place; in that case it would be decision rather than compulsion. "I stood myself in the classroom corner, where I could see all the students"

Coming out of this understanding I would understand the three example sentences to be saying more than if they had used "were standing". The first suggests that Camden and Alex had deliberately selected their position (they had stood themselves there). The other two suggest to me that some other agent, fate, or a series of events, had placed Tate and Khloe in their locations.

Understood in this way the sentences are not ungrammatical, and are not necessarily erroneous.

UK vs USA grammar, past tense usage of "were stood" and "found…stood" that jars my American mind

2 Answers2