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I was taught that "ball-point pen" = compound noun, but "ball-point" is NOT an adjective because it doesn't pass the primary tests for an adjective (has adjective-making morpheme, can have/ be made comparative or superlative, can be qualified, and fits the frame sentence "the ___ man seems very ___").

And then I was taught the royal order of adjectives: "determiner, observation/opinion, size........, qualifier (often a noun), noun." And the example of qualifier, then noun, was: "ball-point pen." So doesn't "ball-point" = qualifier = adjective?

Dee
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    You are right. "Ball-point" is not of course an adjective but a nominal consisting of a compound noun modifying "pen". Not everything that modifies a noun is an adjective! – BillJ Mar 28 '23 at 07:40
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    Why should it be an adjective? You've got "qualifier (often a noun), noun" in your list so it's obviously not exclusively a list of adjectives. There are a lot of questions if you search for attributive nouns, so try reading them. – Stuart F Mar 28 '23 at 09:14
  • @StuartF Agreed. OP's question even contradicts OP's own research. – JK2 Mar 28 '23 at 09:39
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    @YosefBaskin If it worked just like an adjective, then you could have a *very ballpoint pen. But you cannot, which shows that it does NOT work just like an adjective. – tchrist Mar 28 '23 at 13:11
  • ... but then neither do 'nuclear' in 'nuclear fission' and 'priceless' in 'priceless remark'. – Edwin Ashworth Mar 28 '23 at 15:22
  • Unfortunately, you were taught a lot of wrong stuff. We're sorry about that, but we don't feel responsible. Remember that it doesn't matter at all what you call a word; it doesn't change a thing and no one else cares (except maybe your teachers). So stop fretting. – John Lawler Mar 28 '23 at 15:34

2 Answers2

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And then I was taught the royal order of adjectives: "determiner, observation/opinion, size........, qualifier (often a noun), noun." And the example of qualifier, then noun, was: "ball-point pen." So doesn't "ball-point" = qualifier = adjective?

As your version of the "royal order" itself states, the "qualifier" is often a noun, not an adjective.

alphabet
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There are basically two schools of thought on this:

  1. Form and function can be identified using the same term, so everything that's part of a noun phrase besides the head noun is an adjective because, as we all know, adjectives modify nouns.

  2. There's a difference between form and function, so not every word that's part of a noun phrase beside the head noun has to be an adjective - nouns, verbs, and even prepositions can appear as modifiers in noun phrases.

The first school of thought is usually learned early on and then clung to as though it were some sort of fundamental truth, leading to all sorts of strange sounding terms like 'adjective clause' and 'adjectival noun' etc. The second, much more useful and nuanced, requires one to use tests like the ones you mentioned for adjectives. The two approaches work best when kept separate.

DW256
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