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From a previous post, I’ve seen that both (a) and (b) are acceptable, the difference lying in the register (formal vs colloquial) each sentence conveys.

(a) She resented him being invited to open the debate.

(b) She resented his being invited to open the debate.

As a non-native English speaker, I find this sentence structure especially puzzling. Most of my concerns have already been answered in previous posts, except for the way this sentence should be pronounced. I have a vague feeling that him in (a) should sound stronger than his in (b), as if the stress of the dependent clause should fall on him in (a) and on being invited in (b).

…Or rather, as if there should be something like a short stop in the places indicated by the slashes:

(c) She resented / his being invited to open the debate.

(d) She resented him / being invited to open the debate.

To illustrate better what I mean, consider the following phrases:

(e) He’s counselling students.

(f) His counselling students.

Phoneme by phoneme, they should sound almost the same, but the prosody is certainly different. I feel that he’s should sound stronger than his, or that it should carry the sentence stress –if there is such thing– in (e), whereas students should carry the sentence stress in (f). So my questions are:

  • Are (a) and (b) pronounced the same, prosody-wise?
  • Should a (very) short stop be made in the places indicated with the slashes in (c) and (d)?
  • Is “him” in (a) comparable to “he's” in (e), and “his” in (b) comparable to “his” in (f), prosody-wise?
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Yay
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  • If you wanted to stress either him or his, I think you would choose to say him. But you can also pronounce both of these with the same prosody if you don't put stress on the him/his. In that way, it's somewhat similar to your examples (e) and (f). Any word in those two examples could be stressed except his (and with some ingenuity, you might come up with a scenario that let's you stress his). – Peter Shor Dec 20 '15 at 18:24

1 Answers1

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[Note: Prosody and stress patterns vary between different forms of English, and this isn't a subject I've read a lot about. So the below is about my native form of English, that of the Upper Midwestern U.S.]

Are (a) and (b) pronounced the same, prosody-wise?

Yes. Both (a) and (b) have two normal, unmarked options for the prosody:

  • primary stress on invited.
  • equal primary stresses on him/his and on invited.

There may be a small frequency difference: specifically, I would hazard that for (a), both options are about equally likely, whereas for (b), the first option is somewhat more likely; but I'm not sure.

For both (a) and (b), of course, it's possible to strongly stress him/his to emphasize some sort of contrast. (In fact, it's even possible — with enough context — to emphasize the being, if the implication is that she wanted him to make the invitation instead of receiving it.)

Should a (very) short stop be made in the places indicated with the slashes in (c) and (d)?

I really don't think so, no.

Is “him” in (a) comparable to “he's” in (e), and “his” in (b) comparable to “his” in (f), prosody-wise?

I don't think there's much difference, prosody-wise, between the he's of (e) and the his of (f). Examples (e) and (f) have different prosody overall, because (e) stands alone whereas (f) does not; but in both cases, the stresses on counseling and students are much greater than that on he's/his (unless the speaker is specifically emphasizing the he's/his part).

ruakh
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  • Regarding my 1st question, the thing 'his' cannot really be stressed (unless it's the speaker's intention to specifically point that out) while 'him' can pretty much answers my question. Regarding my 2nd question, I thought his can't be separated from being because the former is a determiner of the latter, while him can because that would be the object, and "being..." only a complement to that object. Regarding my 3rd question, what if I had said "He's counselling changes" vs "His counselling changes"? Then both would have a subject and a predicate. Would he's/his still be pronounced the same? – Yay Dec 20 '15 at 19:00
  • @Yay: Re: "'his' cannot really be stressed ([...]) while 'him' can": That is not at all what I said. – ruakh Dec 20 '15 at 19:03
  • @Yay: Re: "I thought his can't be separated from being because the former is a determiner of the latter, while him can because that would be the object, and 'being...' only a complement to that object": This is not true. In "She resented him being [...]", the object of "resented" is "him being [...]" -- not just "him". We can even say things like, "I hate there being nothing I can do" (meaning roughly "I hate the fact that there's nothing I can do" or "I hate it when there's nothing I can do"). – ruakh Dec 20 '15 at 19:05
  • @Yay: Re: "He's counselling changes": I don't understand what this sentence is supposed to mean. – ruakh Dec 20 '15 at 19:06
  • You're right, I completely changed your words. However, you implied something like that by saying... option 1: stress on invited; option 2: stress on him/his and on invited (both equally primary)... option 1 is somewhat more likely for sentence (b) than for sentence (a)... Therefore, in sentence (a) him is slightly more likely to be stressed than his in sentence (b). I know you also said you weren't sure, and maybe I'm just subject to a confirmation bias so just ignore what I said regarding my first question. – Yay Dec 20 '15 at 19:10
  • . . . What, so I "implied" that something is not possible by explicitly stating that it is possible, and hazarding that it might happen somewhat less than half the time? – ruakh Dec 20 '15 at 19:13
  • I know, that's why I agree "cannot really be stressed" is not what you said at all. I see now I just focused on the statements that suported my theory (confirmation bias) and transformed a "likely" into an "always". Just ignore that. "He's counselling changes" is supposed to mean "He's advising changes" or "He's recomending changes", as in "The psychologist is trying out a new method based on life change: he's counselling changes now." It may sound odd, but that's all I could come up with. – Yay Dec 20 '15 at 19:26
  • @ruakh It's just "him" that is the syntactic object of "resented". Semantically, "him" is the subject of the subordinate clause "him being invited to open the debate", which is a catenative complement of "resented".b – BillJ Dec 20 '15 at 19:30
  • @BillJ: No -- the syntactic object of "resented" is "him being invited [...]". (To see this, consider an example where it's the subject: We'd say "Him being there was a surprise", not *"He was a surprise being there".) – ruakh Dec 20 '15 at 19:33
  • Actually, when you say "Him being there was a surprise" you're exactly saying "He was a surprise being there". That's why "Him being there was a surprise" is wrong, and you should say "His being there was a surprise" instead. – Yay Dec 20 '15 at 19:47
  • @ruakh Non-finite clauses can be subjects, of course, but not (normally) objects. "She resented him being invited to open the debate" is a complex catenative construction in which the subordinate clause "him being invited" is a catenative complement to the verb "resented". The intervening object "him" is semantically the subject of the complement clause but syntactic subject of the matrix. – BillJ Dec 20 '15 at 19:49
  • @BillJ: Uh, sorry, I think your comment needs some copyediting. You've made a bunch of claims that I don't think you intended to make (e.g., that "invited" is taking a complement that includes itself, and that "him" is the subject of "resented"), and I'm having difficulty seeing past them to understand what you are trying to say. (Please feel free to delete your comment and re-post a correct version.) – ruakh Dec 20 '15 at 19:53
  • @Yay I disagree. The syntax of "his being there" is the same as "him being there". In both cases, "He/him" is the subject. Both are grammatically fine – BillJ Dec 20 '15 at 19:55
  • @Yay: It's true that some people claim (arbitrarily) that "Him being there was a surprise" is quote-unquote "wrong" -- but the same people make the same claim about your sentence (a). Note that both sentences are fully grammatical in Standard English; they're "wrong" only according to a sort of schoolteacher grammar that has little relation to reality. – ruakh Dec 20 '15 at 19:56
  • @ruakh Just a typo. I edited it in time! – BillJ Dec 20 '15 at 19:58
  • @BillJ: But even in the edited version, you say that "'him' is [...] syntactic subject of the matrix", which I don't think can be what you meant. Regardless . . . can you clarify whether you also believe that the "his" in "She resented his being there" is the syntactic object of "resented", vs. whether you believe that "him being there" and "his being there" differ in this respect? (Your answer will shape my further arguments . . .) – ruakh Dec 20 '15 at 20:02
  • Well, I think (a) is technically wrong for the same reason I think "Him being there was a surprise" is. The whole thing really comes down to a prescriptivism vs descriptivism debate from my point of view. I don't get what you mean by your last comment (I see my English knowledge is not good enough for sentence parsing, I keep turning to Spanish grammar to parse it, which doesn't make any sense) so I'm not going to keep insisting on that --I'll take ruakh's word and consider they are pronounced the same, and that both are gramatically okay. – Yay Dec 20 '15 at 20:10
  • @ruakh Sorry, yet another silly typo! Here is the correct version: Non-finite clauses can be subjects, of course, but not (normally) objects. "She resented him being invited to open the debate" is a complex catenative construction in which the subordinate clause "being invited to open the debate" is a catenative complement to the verb "resented". The intervening object "him" is semantically the subject of the complement clause but the syntactic object of the matrix. – BillJ Dec 20 '15 at 20:10
  • @BillJ: So, how would you analyze (1) "She resented his being there", (2) "She found him being there annoying", and (3) "She was annoyed by him being there"? – ruakh Dec 20 '15 at 20:17
  • Only a native speaker who never actually studied English would accept "him being there" as being correct, *in my opinion.* Would you accept "Him did the right thing?" or "Him was invited?" as being proper? I am getting old, but Sweet Jesus, "him being invited" sounds ignorant and just plain wrong to me. I would gladly accept, "She resented him for being invited to open the debate." When did they throw out "a possessive pronoun controls a gerund?" Yours in antiquity (apparently), – Mark Hubbard Dec 20 '15 at 20:53
  • @ruakh "She resented his being there" has the same basic syntax as "She resented his/him being invited ...; they are both complex catenatives, i.e. the kind with intervening objects. Your other two examples are not catenatives; (3) for example, is a passive construction where the by- phrase "by him being there" is a passive complement, not a catenative one. In any case, it's a PP, not a clause, so it can't be a catenative complement – BillJ Dec 20 '15 at 21:19
  • @MarkHubbard: FWIW, I don't think this has very much to do with "getting old" or "antiquity"; after all, Fowler was writing about fused participles over a century ago. – ruakh Dec 20 '15 at 22:06
  • @BillJ: Re: #1: I'm sure you must have a very compelling argument for analyzing "his", despite its possessive form, as the object of "resent". Is it something you can summarize and/or link to? Re: #2 and #3: So you don't analyze them as catenatives, but how do you analyze them? Do you view "him being there" as a non-finite clause in those cases (as when it's the subject)? – ruakh Dec 20 '15 at 22:14
  • @ruakh The difficulty with complex catenatives is deciding whether the intervening object is syntactically the object of the matrix clause or subject of the subordinate catenative clause. Revisiting the OP’s “She resented him/his being invited …” I’d say that either “him” or genitive “his” is actually the subject of the catenative comp clause (not obj of the matrix). And likewise in your ex’s (1) and (2): “She resented his being there” and “She found him being there annoying”. But I still see “by him being there” in your ex (3) as a non-catenative passive comp. Sorry for the confusion! – BillJ Dec 21 '15 at 19:03
  • @BillJ: No worries. I think we now agree on all points, then. :-) – ruakh Dec 21 '15 at 19:05