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Here's the original quote from Socrates:

Let he who would move the world, first move himself.

I'm thinking a non-gender specific version would be:

Let they who would move the world, first move themselves.

Or should it be theirselves?

tchrist
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James Gentes
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    Theirself is not an English word. –  Dec 11 '15 at 16:40
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    Let them who would move the world, first move themselves. – Jim Dec 11 '15 at 17:16
  • @James Gentes The singular-only variant "they" (not "them") does the trick in the first part. But then along comes the plural-only reflexive "themselves" which wrecks the whole thing! The only solution is to use the non-standard (at the moment) "themself". – BillJ Dec 11 '15 at 17:45
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    'Let him who ...' rather than 'Let he who ...' is the accepted if very formal version (unless it's changed recently). – Edwin Ashworth Dec 11 '15 at 17:50
  • @BillJ I think 'themselves' sounds just fine here. – Mitch Dec 11 '15 at 17:54
  • @Mitch Yes, but "themselves" is a plural-only reflexive, and James is only trying to make it sex-neutral, not plural. – BillJ Dec 11 '15 at 17:56
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    I'd go with "Let those who would move the world first move themselves." – Hellion Dec 11 '15 at 18:28
  • @Hellion. You've made the whole thing plural. The task is to keep it singular but gender-neutral. – BillJ Dec 11 '15 at 18:32
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    @BillJ The stated task is to make it gender-neutral; singularity is not required that I can see. :-) So, de-gendering by pluralization seems appropriate (and English is still ill-equipped for a gender-neutral singular construction anyway). – Hellion Dec 11 '15 at 19:02
  • @Hellion The OP presented a sentence with singular masculine pronouns and then asked about a non-gender specific version. I take that to mean without pluralising it. – BillJ Dec 11 '15 at 19:16
  • @Hellion The solution is the rather awkward-sounding "Let they who would move the world, first move themself". Singular gender-neutral "they" has been accepted for a long time, and although the singular reflexive form "themself" is still seen as non-standard, it would solve the problem nicely. – BillJ Dec 11 '15 at 19:29
  • For the record, I'm ok with pluralizing it, and prefer that approach to something people would think sounds more awkward. – James Gentes Dec 11 '15 at 21:12
  • Socrates was the first to admit he didn't know anything, and Greek didn't have the pronoun 'him' (it's English :) so, as long as you're paraphrasing, which you must unless you're using Greek, you can use whatever is most appropriate in context. What context are you going to use it in? I'm thinking along the lines of "I'll move the world by first moving myself, me." But I suppose you're not Cajun? Of course, if you're borrowing Socratic wisdom, you might want to start with what he knew for sure. – JEL Dec 12 '15 at 07:37
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    The only reason themself is considered non-standard is because the singular they was considered non-standard until fairly recently. Now that the singular they is standard, there is a hole in the English language which can only be filled by themself or the singular themselves. One of these will stop being non-standard soon. – Peter Shor Dec 12 '15 at 11:22
  • @EdwinAshworth: Many speakers nowadays seem to treat "he who" as a fixed form that does not inflect for case. ("Let he who is without sin", for example, is well attested.) I think this is related to the general tendency to apply case inflection only when the entire subject or object is a pronoun (hence e.g. "Her and Billy went on a date"), though that's probably not the whole story, because we'd otherwise expect "him who" in all cases ("him" rather than "he" being the usual default form). – ruakh Dec 12 '15 at 23:06
  • @BillJ: I don't think "them who [...]" can be singular. Singular they is similar in many ways to "(s)he", but it's not 100% equivalent; it requires setup/context that the OP's sentence doesn't supply. – ruakh Dec 12 '15 at 23:14
  • “Let them/one who would move the world start by getting their own self moving” (or “their own house in order/“their own ass in gear”). – Papa Poule Dec 13 '15 at 00:46
  • @ruakh According to a reddit subscriber {2015} 'This topic – the case of personal pronouns with relative clause modifiers – is a rather messy sort of thing, and historically, and depending on register and usage, can vary as to the case of the pronoun. But nowadays, the default usage w.r.t. pronoun case is accusative (e.g. "him") for examples like yours.' This is certainly the stance of Fowler from say 60 years ago. – Edwin Ashworth Dec 13 '15 at 09:33
  • And this article from Sesquiotica (2009) argues strongly for 'Let him/her who is ...'. – Edwin Ashworth Dec 13 '15 at 09:38
  • @EdwinAshworth: Both of those pages actually prove my point! (Especially the first one.) – ruakh Dec 13 '15 at 17:14
  • @ruakh so you are suggesting I use they/themselves? – James Gentes Dec 13 '15 at 17:49
  • @JamesGentes: I'd suggest either them + themselves, or completely rephrasing. – ruakh Dec 13 '15 at 17:58
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    @JamesGentes: Oh, or maybe "Let those who would move the world, first move themselves." ("Those who" is much more common than "them/they who".) – ruakh Dec 13 '15 at 18:38
  • @ruakh Good idea, 'those' sounds natural. – James Gentes Dec 13 '15 at 18:45

3 Answers3

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If you're OK with shifting to a plural formulation, I'd suggest:

Let those who would move the world, first move themselves.

(Though I see in one of your comments that you "prefer a more modern adjustment"? In that case, you might also want to change "would" to "wish to"; the use of "would" to express desire is fairly old-fashioned.)

ruakh
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It's more of a grammatical divergence from the original than other proposals, but I'd suggest "To move the world, first move yourself."

Yes, it's not the original, but the whole premise was not to keep the original. So changing to second person seems like a good way to arrive at something not sounding contrived.

user151340
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It is simple:

Let one who would move the world, first move oneself.

tchrist
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Dinesh Kumar Garg
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    For some reason, "oneself" sounds totally wrong in this sentence. – fdb Dec 12 '15 at 23:43
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    @fdb I agree that "oneself" sonds totally wrong here. I wish one of the experts would explain why. After all, "one must move oneself before trying to move the world" sounds OK to me. – Andreas Blass Dec 13 '15 at 00:53
  • I agree this is a correct way to state the phrase, but I prefer a more modern adjustment, whereas this makes it sound ancient. – James Gentes Dec 13 '15 at 17:52
  • One does not use the pronoun "one" like that. In the quoted sentence, "one" is not the impersonal pronoun, but an ordinary noun. For the relevant reflexive pronoun to use at the end of the sentence, I suggest "themself". – Rosie F Oct 17 '19 at 18:25