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I’ve finally decided to take a look at my English pronunciation and it is being an awesome new world. I am focused on Received Pronunciation (British Standard) and one question comes to mind for which I can find no answer on the internet.

The a spelling on CAN and THAT should have the same pronunciation according to the pronunciation symbol ‘æ’, but they don’t.

The pronunciation of that as /ðæt/ seems quite right, but shouldn’t can be /ken/ not /kæn/?

tchrist
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viery365
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    I don't recognize the phonemic (phonetic? eye-dialect?) transcription /ken/ here. If you just mean that sometimes the vowel in *can* is reduced to a schwa, I don't see the relevance. The vowel in *that* can also be reduced in exactly the same way. – FumbleFingers Aug 13 '15 at 15:22
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    There is no single way to pronounce these words when considering dialectal variation. http://forvo.com/search/can/en/ – Jim Aug 13 '15 at 15:37
  • Thank you for your answers. As I am a beginner I really do not understand. Formally they have the same 'æ' symbol and I've searched on different dictionaries + forvo and in UK they are pronounced differently (that vs can). CAN is always pronounced as /ken/ and formally should be pronounced as /kæn/. I am talking in purely formal ways. If then in practice we have the freedom to do it otherwise is another issue. – viery365 Aug 13 '15 at 15:45
  • @viery365: If by that you mean UK speakers always reduce the vowel in can to a schwa (and by implication, that US speakers don't), you're simply mistaken. – FumbleFingers Aug 13 '15 at 15:46
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    I think this may be an RP system that distinguishes tense vowels with colons. In these /e/ is IPA /ɛ/ as in ken, men, ten. And in the US, can is mostly pronounced /kɛn/. The pronunciation /kæn/ is most likely to be short for /kænʔ/can't, which always uses /æ/. – John Lawler Aug 13 '15 at 15:47
  • 'can't' is /kɑːnt/ . The symbol /æ/ is more like 'hat' or 'back'. It is a short sound while /a:/ is long sound. – viery365 Aug 13 '15 at 15:50
  • I know that I pronounce *can* in at least 3 different ways in different situations. While I am an American, I have to believe that this would be true for BE as well - so that likely means at least 6 different pronunciations right there. – Jim Aug 13 '15 at 15:54
  • This question seems related, though as I mention in my answer there I haven't heard of /æ/ being tensed before nasals in British English, only in North American English: http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/258757/pronunciation-of-words-like-thanks-land-and/258786#258786 – herisson Aug 13 '15 at 15:56
  • @FumbleFingers The determiner and pronoun that has no weak form. It's only the subordinator that which does. – Araucaria - Him Aug 13 '15 at 15:59
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    I don't really understand your question very well, and I think there's a way you can clarify it. Do you think can rhymes with man? Do you think with can rhymes with pen? Do you think can, man, and pen all rhyme? In AmE, can often rhymes with pen and not man, but I don't know whether this ever happens in BrE. – Peter Shor Aug 13 '15 at 16:02
  • Yes. According to the dictionaries the American pronunciation for 'can' is /kən/ and that makes sense. However, the problem concernes the British Standard. But the link you have posted is useful because it explains that /æ/ can be pronounced in different ways. Thank you! – viery365 Aug 13 '15 at 16:03
  • @Peter Shor The question is that as a foreigner I do not know if in British Standard can rhymes with Pen and I wanted to know. According to the official phonetics can should have the same æ as the word that which it does not seem to be the case. – viery365 Aug 13 '15 at 16:07
  • I think it's very likely that the vowels in can and that are somewhat different for many standard BrE speakers, because in English vowels often get changed slightly by the following vowels (so for me, moth and law have quite different vowels, but they represent the same phoneme and they're both between the neighboring vowels coat and cot). If that's the reason for what you're hearing, the vowel of can should be the same as that of man and not of pen. – Peter Shor Aug 13 '15 at 16:09
  • @Peter: Being just an "ordinary" native speaker, I would find it almost impossible to actually hear whether any given instance of I can send* it over* actually involves repeating the same vowel sound, whether in a BrE or AmE accent. I think possibly this question is a matter of the difference between “phonetic” and “phonemic” – FumbleFingers Aug 13 '15 at 16:11
  • @Peter Shor Ok, thank you:) Now I understand:) Thank you for your explanation:) Indeed, by the Cambridge Dictionary can is /kæn/ and man is /mæn/. So, can=man is explained. that however is /ðæt/ and is very different of the a of can or the a of man – viery365 Aug 13 '15 at 16:14
  • They might just sound very different to you because the vowels of your native language don't match the vowels of English; they sound the same to us. – Peter Shor Aug 13 '15 at 16:15
  • Yes, you are right:) My language is Portuguese and we have many sounds for the vowels a and e. But I tell you: I am finding English pronunciation extremely difficult!!! – viery365 Aug 13 '15 at 16:19
  • @Jim - I'm not sure I agree with you a hundred percent on your logic, there, Jim. Are you sure RP really uses completely different sounds for the same vowel as Americans? – anongoodnurse Aug 13 '15 at 18:29
  • @medica- I think my point is that Americans don't always use the same sounds in a given dialect not to mention the differences in New Yorkers, Upstate New Yorkers, Georgians, and Texans – Jim Aug 13 '15 at 22:11

1 Answers1

5
  1. kæn
  2. kən
  3. ðæt
  4. ðət

The strong forms of the words can and that both have the TRAP vowel in RP. This is the same vowel as in the word cat /kæt/. These forms of the words are shown in examples (1) and (3) repsectively. The auxiliary verb can is usually only strong when stressed or when stranded (ie when not followed by another verb).

The subordinator that and the auxiliary verb can both have weak forms which we use when they are not stressed. These are usually said with a schwa vowel, /ə/ as shown in examples (2) and (4). However, can may also be realised with a syllabic consonant, as in /kn̩/.

The determiner that as in that elephant, and the pronoun that as in give me that have no weak forms. Neither does the noun can, of course.

Speakers who are just starting out on their journey into English pronunciation may well mistake a schwa for another vowel. It can be difficult to recognise for the uninitiated, having no association with any particular orthographic vowel.

[Speakers with razor sharp ears may be able to detect a slight difference in the quality of the vowels in can and that. The vowel in can will be nasalised because of the following alveolar nasal sound, /n/.]

Araucaria - Him
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