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In a question, there's been a correction and instead of the original

I'm seeing an answer on SO and I feel that I'd need to post a comment to it with a relevant follow-up question. However, there's no link nor button to do that.

the edit changed it into

I'm seeing an answer on SO and I feel that I'd need to post a comment to it with a relevant follow-up question. However, there's no link or button to do that.

  1. Which one is correct?
  2. Are those equivalent?
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Konrad Viltersten
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3 Answers3

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Use of nor goes with neither. I think this would be a proper way to say using nor.

However, there's neither a link nor a button to do that.

Imsa
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  • While your statement's correct, it doesn't answer my question. Or does it? Did you perhaps mean that nor must have neither? I'd expect both neither and no as appropriate words for nor. – Konrad Viltersten Nov 30 '15 at 22:43
  • No, nor doesn't have to have neither. ie: We didn’t get to see the castle, nor did we see the cathedral. Or implies that there is a choice whereas nor doesn't.\ – Imsa Nov 30 '15 at 22:49
  • I see. In that case - you reply, although 100% correct, doesn't answer the original question. There are two, in fact. You should keep the current reply but completed by the two items that are asked for. :) – Konrad Viltersten Nov 30 '15 at 22:51
  • Ahh, didn't see that hyperlink in your question "In a question". My bad! :/ – Imsa Nov 30 '15 at 22:53
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To answer the two questions you present:

  1. Which one is correct?

The corrected version is correct. "nor" isn't appropriate there.

  1. Are those equivalent?

My answer to the first part answers this. They are not equivalent, as the original version uses "nor" in an incorrect way.

You've picked a very tricky word to use. "Nor" is the sort of thing that even I shy away from because its use cases are tricky.

You'll OFTEN find "nor" used with "neither":

Child: Mother, I'm hungry!
Mother: I know child, but alas, we have neither milk nor bread!

That example that I typed up might look weird to you - and for good reason. It's a more stuffy construction that feels very old to me (which is why I threw in the "alas" - that's the sort of connotation I have for "nor").

"nor" seems to exist to solve the problem that arises with our language due to logic. Without "nor," we would have (in the previous example), "we have no milk or bread." Technically speaking, this says that we don't have one of them, and says nothing about the other. The mother wants to be clear to the child that she has neither the milk nor the bread.

The actual reason that "nor" was incorrect in your post was because you didn't use the correct construction of "neither" and "nor."

You could have either had

However, there's no link or button to do that.

OR

However, there's neither a link nor a button to do that.

The first one is much more colloquial and makes more sense in almost any context today.

Alex K
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  • I understand the reasoning It made me feel veeery old, since neither alas nor neither...or seemed any archaic to me (re-usage of neither-or intended). However, we have a diagonally concurrent answer and I'd like to wage it against yours. NB - I'm in no way looking to start a fight. I mere wish to sort out it for future reference. You both have most certainly each own's reason and I'd love to hear those. Is it an age thing? Colloquial versus academic lingo? Regional issue? At any rate +1 for clarity and extensiveness. – Konrad Viltersten Dec 01 '15 at 18:40
  • @KonradViltersten Interesting. I think I see where the discrepency lies. I'll leave a comment on the conflicting post. Also, I didn't intend to make you feel old - I simply wanted to convey the connotation that I have, as an American college student. – Alex K Dec 01 '15 at 19:17
  • Don't sweat it, mate. I was only joking. I can't affect my age so there's really no point feeling anything in that regard. I've been told, however, that I sound both bureaucratically official and weirdly old-fashioned, so you wouldn't be the first to notice that. But as I'm approaching the age of 39.8 years, I finally get to nag and bitch about the youngsters, hehe. – Konrad Viltersten Dec 01 '15 at 21:42
  • @KonradViltersten If you're interested in the topic yourself, I recommend reading the second page of this: http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/when-use-nor?page=1. The sources are cited so you can check it out for yourself. – Alex K Dec 02 '15 at 16:49
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Both are correct and mean the same thing.

Just as "or" is used to indicate that either of two possibilities may be true, "nor" is used to indicate that neither is true. To make sense, there normally must be some other "negative" word or words in the sentence, like "not", "neither", "never", etc.

Bob will not help you, nor will Mary.

Neither Bob nor Mary will help you.

You will not get help from Bob nor from Mary.

In the first two examples, you MUST say "nor". In the third example, either "nor" or "or" is acceptable.

By the way, mathematicians and computer people often try to apply the Boolean logic usage of words like "or" and "nor" and insist that a sentence like "It is not Bob or Mary" means "it is not Bob, or it is Mary". Or you ask, "Is it Bob or Mary?" and they say "yes", meaning, "it is true that it is either Bob or Mary". No. English is not Boolean logic.

You might look at this page: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/nor for more information.

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Jay
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  • There's a concurrent answer contradicting yours. Obviously, there seems to be some unclarity in this regard and I'd like to hear your thoughts on the discrepancy, preferably elaborately phrased. – Konrad Viltersten Dec 01 '15 at 18:43
  • I agree that the first two are correct, and, though the third one sounds awkward to me, I guess it is correct as well, however, I think that what Konrad posted isn't really in the same form as that third example. To translate what he had in terms of Bob and Mary, you would have "There is no Bob nor Mary in the room," and that definitely sounds incorrect to me. – Alex K Dec 01 '15 at 19:22
  • I found the discrepency more concretely. Take a look at the link that you provided in your answer. The equivalent versions of "nor" are given as "and not," "or not," and "not either." The difference is that in your example, "You will not get help from Bob and not from Mary" makes sense. However, in Konrad's example, "there's no link and not button" makes no sense. That is why it sounded off to me. – Alex K Dec 01 '15 at 19:38
  • @alexk "There's no Bob nor Mary in the room" sounds funny because Bob and Mary here refer to individual people. Even without the "nor" it would be funny: "There's no Bob in the room"? No. Unless we mean that there is no one in the room named Bob. i.e. we're not talking about one particular Bob, but about anyone with that name. In that case, "There is no Bob nor Mary", i.e. "There is no one named Bob nor anyone named Mary", would be perfectly valid. – Jay Dec 02 '15 at 14:58
  • @alexk Well, saying that "nor" means "and not" or "or not" doesn't mean you can just substitute those words. Take an example you agree with: "Neither Bob nor Mary is present." We can't rewrite that as "Neither Bob and not Mary is present". That doesn't work either. – Jay Dec 02 '15 at 15:00
  • @KonradViltersten Yes, AlexK and I disagree. I think he's mistaken and he thinks I am! I think what it comes down to is that he thinks "nor" requires "neither", which I believe is simply wrong. – Jay Dec 02 '15 at 15:02
  • @Jay Interesting. "There's no Bob in the room." doesn't necessarily set me off - it's technically correct. I think it's strange, but still right! If we were talking about what "sounds weird," then there would be no question that "no link nor button" sounds awkward. And in the sentence you just used, you get back to the same issue! You don't have nor in front of the items that we're talking about, the way Konrad had in his sentence... – Alex K Dec 02 '15 at 16:40
  • "nor" certainly doesn't require neither in every construction. In this case, to use nor, you'd need neither out in front. In other phrasings, you could just use nor. – Alex K Dec 02 '15 at 16:41
  • @Jay Please see Garner, B. Garner's Modern American Usage. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2003, pp. 553-4. "the initial negative carries through to all the enumerated elements” (5). For example, when you use the word “not,” the structure “not A or B” is correct. You’d have to say, “He is not interested in math or science”; “He is not interested in math nor science” won’t work. Likewise, “She didn’t speak slowly or clearly” has a better ring to it than “She didn’t speak slowly nor clearly.”" – Alex K Dec 02 '15 at 16:43
  • @AlexK At any rate, I can agree that it sounds more fluid to use or. However, the last of your examples - didn't speak slowly nor clearly - in my ear, at least, sounds as we're stressing both the properties (in a negative intonation). A bit like not only didn't she speak slowly - she, didn't speak clearly, also. Wouldn't you agree? – Konrad Viltersten Dec 02 '15 at 22:56
  • @KonradViltersten Yes, I think that one is TECHNICALLY correct, because you're able to switch out "and not," since you don't need to repeat the verb. Your sentence was not such a sentence. – Alex K Dec 04 '15 at 00:08