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My family went to Australia, then they emigrated to Canada.

Is the comma in the above sentence considered a comma splice? Somebody who is more fluent than me said so, but doesn't the word "then" here fix the problem?

Barmar
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an IELTS learner
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    It needs something stronger than a comma. You could replace it with a semi-colon, or a full stop. Alternatively, you could optionally retain the comma and insert "and" after "Australia". – BillJ Mar 19 '24 at 07:28
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    Your answer is in contradiction to James', so I'm a bit confused here. – an IELTS learner Mar 19 '24 at 07:33
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    In your example. "then" does not refer to the same time as that of its antecedent but to a time following it, where we understand "after that". You will encounter examples with just a comma, like yours, but I would recommend My family went to Australia, and then they emigrated to Canada. – BillJ Mar 19 '24 at 08:21
  • Fyi, we just say comma, not comma splice. – Lambie Mar 19 '24 at 16:14
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    @Lambie A "comma splice" refers to two separate sentences joined with just a comma (and no conjunction), such as "Bob bought a book, he went home." – psmears Mar 19 '24 at 16:49
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    @psmears Yes, but this really isn't one... – Lambie Mar 19 '24 at 17:40
  • I'd tend to shorten it: My family migrated to Australia, then to Canada. Why? I'm a native speaker, and the 2nd version sounds better. I can't quote a rule, but I prefer brevity. I also think of "migrate" as the verb, "immigrant" and "emigrant" as nouns. You cannot become an emigrant from one country without becoming an immigrant to another. – Simon Crase Mar 20 '24 at 01:31
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    @Lambie: I know - but you said "we say comma, not comma splice", but we do - just not for this example :) – psmears Mar 20 '24 at 10:10
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    @psmears Ok, I meant here. No worries. – Lambie Mar 20 '24 at 13:50
  • @psmears How could 'Bob bought a book, he went home' ever be justified?

    However many conjunctions might rescue Bob, to me it seems your example could never work with any punctuation but a full stop and even then, it would be dodgy.

     – Robbie Goodwin Mar 24 '24 at 21:56
  • @psmears Sorry; a keyslip Posted that too early… – Robbie Goodwin Mar 24 '24 at 22:01
  • @RobbieGoodwin: There's nothing remotely wrong with either "Bob bought a book before he went home" or "Bob bought a book. He went home." (The second on its own isn't stylistically beautiful, but imagine the next sentence is "He then proceeded to throw his newly acquired book in the fire." and it's suddenly much less objectionable). But the point is that joining the two clauses with just a comma is the definition of a comma splice. – psmears Mar 24 '24 at 22:09
  • @psmears Sorry, and too many things here…

    '… we went to Australia, then to Canada' is not a comma splice.

    All comma splices are by definition wrong.

    Neither 'Bob bought a book before he went home" nor "Bob bought a book. He went home…' relates to comma splices.

    There's nothing wrong with 'Bob bought a book before he went home' and how is that comparable to 'Bob bought a book. He went home…' except to emphasize how wrong the latter is?

     – Robbie Goodwin Mar 24 '24 at 22:37
  • @RobbieGoodwin: I'm really not sure what you're talking about here. I never said that "We went to Australia, then to Canada" is a comma splice! All I said is that (1) "comma splice" is a phrase used in English, and (2) "Bob bought a book, he went home." is an example of one. – psmears Mar 24 '24 at 22:45
  • Fine. Going right back, are you agreeing that the given example does not contain a comma splice… and while Lambie slipped up, that particular correction was prolly more like to confuse than to help any EL Learner?

    Almost separately, do you truly not believe that with comma or a stop, 'Bob bought a book, he went home' will never be acceptable?

     – Robbie Goodwin Mar 24 '24 at 22:52
  • @RobbieGoodwin: The given example does not contain a comma splice (as I've already said). I responded to Lambie because Lambie's original comment read (to me, and possibly to OP) like it was saying that "comma splice" is not a phrase we use in English: "We say XXX, not YYY" is something often said to ELLs to correct mistakes, so it could easily confuse. In formal writing, "Bob bought a book, he went home." is not acceptable (it's a comma splice!), but changing the comma to a full stop makes it OK (no longer a comma splice, grammatically fine, style arguable depending on context). Happy now? – psmears Mar 26 '24 at 10:48

4 Answers4

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This is the standard punctuation for two related clauses in which the second begins with the adverb "then" meaning "next" or "after that". Dictionaries provide lots of similar examples

From Cambridge dictionary:

  • Let me finish this job, then we'll go.
  • Give her the letter to read, then she'll understand.
James K
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  • Interestingly, if we were to replace "then" with "next" or "after that" something heavier than a comma would be required, or the coordinator "and". – BillJ Mar 20 '24 at 17:59
  • I feel like these either need the word "and" before "then" or a semicolon instead of the comma – ericw31415 Mar 20 '24 at 21:41
  • All this really goes to prove is that the "sentence" is not a fundamental unit of grammar. The clause is the fundamental unit. There are various conventions on whether two clauses should be marked with full stops, semi-colons or commas. But these are orthographic details, not part of grammar. There are no semi colons in spoken English! – James K Mar 20 '24 at 22:09
  • The examples given here insinuate causality between the former and the latter (if A, then B). It seems to me that the OP is trying to indicate two instances of moving abroad without any causality between them, merely an ordered sequence, which is different from the examples here. The different verbs (going/emigrating) imply that two different things happened. Contrast this to "My family emigrated to Australia, then Canada", which does not imply causality, but merely an ordered sequence. – Flater Mar 21 '24 at 03:46
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I don't think this is a comma splice. A comma splice joins two independent clauses that are not necessarily related, which could just as well have been joined with semicolon or written as separate sentences. Each of these thoughts should be able to stand on their own.

But the second clause begins with "then" that relates it directly to the first clause. It makes no sense to say

Then they emigrated to Canada.

by itself, it needs to be related to whatever took place previously.

Barmar
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    I'm not convinced. The requirements for comma splice are more that the clauses are grammatically able to exist on their own, not that they can encapsulate their meaning independently without supporting context. For instance, "When I make a PB & J I spread the peanut butter, I spread the jam" is comma splice, but "I spread the jam" doesn't make any more sense on its own then "Then they emigrated to Canada." It's okay for this to be its own sentence; we start indpendent sentences with connecting words like "then" all the time. It's just contextually odd. – Andy Bonner Mar 20 '24 at 21:00
  • You broke your own rule. "Each of these thoughts should be able to stand on their own" inherently relies on prior context for it to be understandable. The language does not force you to maintain contextual cohesion in a single sentence. – Flater Mar 21 '24 at 03:56
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If you're writing a personal diary entry, say, or a short story where you are punctuating in manner that reflects the rhythm of a character's remark, or writing an informal synopsis of events, a comma is not a problem there.

But if you're writing a document of a more formal nature, it would be better to use a semicolon.

We'll have a bite to eat, then we can catch a movie. How's that sound?

Our claims adjuster will visit the property to assess the extent of the damage; then we will review the situation with our underwriters, and when that review has been completed, we will send you a letter recommending repair or replacement.

Take care when tightening the mounting nut; improper torque can result in damage to the strut mechanism.

Don't overtighten, it can ruin the strut.

TimR
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    In "we'll have a bite to eat, then catch a movie," a comma is required because the second clause is dependent. – the-baby-is-you Mar 19 '24 at 16:02
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    Duly edited.... – TimR Mar 19 '24 at 16:09
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    There is absolutely nothing wrong with a comma there (if there is, please explain why because it seems far less natural to me to break the clearly connected clauses in the OP with a semicolon than it is to link them with a comma). If you wanted a stop, then a full stop might make sense, but the semicolon just doesn't work for me there at all. – terdon Mar 19 '24 at 18:25
  • @terdon: Nothing wrong with a comma where? – TimR Mar 19 '24 at 21:41
  • @terdon A semicolon is less extreme than a full stop. It signals the end of a clause or clause-combo that could be free-standing, like a sentence, while indicating that the next clause is closely related on a semantic level to the preceding clause(s). So if you don't have any problem with a full stop, you shouldn't have any with a semicolon. – TimR Mar 19 '24 at 22:26
  • Native speaker here, I concur. The original sentence is OK as unedited conversation, but for formal written communication the comma doesn't seem 'strong' enough to hold such independent thoughts together. It might work better as 'My family went to Australia, and then emigrated to Canada'. In this version the subject of the second half is now in the first half. – mander Don't reinstate Monica Mar 20 '24 at 00:17
  • So by what you said, I assume that "and" is somewhat stronger than "then" in terms of holding independent clauses together. The thing is, in my native language, "then" and "and" are not different at all with regard to such strength. How can a non-native speaker decide which word is strong enough and which is not? – an IELTS learner Mar 20 '24 at 03:25
  • The semicolon can be used to delimit a series of closely related clauses (e.g. steps in a process, or an instruction and a warning of the dangers of not following the instruction) and allows those clauses to use the comma when needed. – TimR Mar 20 '24 at 10:06
  • @terdon To connect two clauses you need a conjunction, a semicolon, or a full stop. Connecting two independent clauses with nothing but a comma is the definition of a comma splice. – ericw31415 Mar 20 '24 at 21:50
  • @ericw31415 yes, but these are not independent. – terdon Mar 21 '24 at 09:53
  • @terdon When then means "afterwards" the clause it introduces can stand on its own. That's why you think a full stop could work. My "rule of thumb" would be to use a semicolon to mark the clauses, or a full stop, or to connect the clauses with "and", or to separate the clauses with a comma, or with ", and " -- and those options are arranged on a gradient from formal to informal. – TimR Mar 21 '24 at 12:30
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I'm not too familiar with the ELL StackExchange, but I'm surprised by the answers and comments so far.

This is absolutely an ungrammatical comma splice. You have two independent clauses connected with a comma and no conjunction. "Then" is an adverb (modifying "emigrated"), not a conjunction.

Grammatically valid fixes include using a semicolon, using and then instead of just then, and dividing into two separate sentences.

mhjacobson
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  • Comma slices are not ungrammatical, this is about style and punctuation, not grammar. – terdon Mar 21 '24 at 09:54
  • I agree. A small point: in contemporary grammar "then" is classified not as an adverb but as a preposition understood as "after that". – BillJ Mar 21 '24 at 13:21
  • I don't think it is a comma splice. If "then" wasn't there, then it would be a comma splice. – Ali E Mar 22 '24 at 05:40
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