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John: What does "running a red light" mean?

(1) Sam: If I were to drive past a red traffic light without stopping, you would say, "Sam has run a red light".

(2) Sam: If I were to drive past a red traffic light without stopping, you would say that Sam has run/ran/had run a red light.

Is the verb tense in (1) correct? Which tense should I use in (2)?

Mr. X
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  • There's no reason why the response in the first (direct speech) context shouldn't be "Sam ran* a red light",* but the way you've presented the question implies you think use of Simple Past is somehow affected by whether it's reported speech or not. Come to that, in appropriate contexts the other person might use *Past* Perfect rather than Simple Past or Present Perfect. The choice of verb tense here has nothing to do with direct or reported speech - it's entirely a matter of the speaker's context, and the implication he might wish to make. – FumbleFingers Mar 11 '24 at 13:32
  • Both item 1 and item 2 refer to the same event and are worded exactly the same. Why would they be different? The quoted text uses the same tenses whether presented as a direct quote or otherwise. – EllieK Mar 11 '24 at 13:33
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    Does this answer your question? Canonical Post #2: What is the perfect, and how should I use it? – FumbleFingers Mar 11 '24 at 13:33
  • Please fix your question title. – Lambie Mar 11 '24 at 14:01
  • @EllieK, Inside the quotation marks we have a real sentence/construction using real verb tense, while, outside we have a hypothetical construction. My question is if I remove the quotation marks, would the verb tense in the that-clause get affected? Because as far as I remember, we tend to backshift verbs in hypothetical constructions. – Mr. X Mar 11 '24 at 14:58
  • @FumbleFingers, so depending on the speaker's context etc, would you say all the verb tenses in the OP are equally possible? – Mr. X Mar 11 '24 at 15:00
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    They're not "equally" possible. For example, contexts where someone might say "Sam had run a red light" are relatively uncommon. They'd have to already be talking about some time in the past, after the running of the light, in order to use Past Perfect to refer to "the past within the past". For example. "We were stopped by a police car last night. Sam had run a red light,* but they let us off with a warning"* would be fine, because running the red light came before being stopped by the police. – FumbleFingers Mar 11 '24 at 15:27
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    But certainly all combinations of Simple Past, Present Perfect, and Past Perfect are perfectly valid syntactically, regardless of whether they're used in "direct quoted" speech (he said "I am Sam"), or "indirect reported" speech (he said [that] he was Sam**). – FumbleFingers Mar 11 '24 at 15:33
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    Note that your context could equally well start with Simple Past instead of "subjunctive", as If I drove* past a red traffic light...* Some people will say Simple Present If I drive* past a red traffic light...* should only pair with ...you will* say...,* but lots of native speakers don't care about such nitpicking details. All permutations do in fact occur, even if pedants don't like certain combinations. – FumbleFingers Mar 11 '24 at 15:52
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    @FumbleFingers, what I understood from your comments is that the verb tense of the sentence inside the quotation marks depends entirely on the context. Also, if we remove the quotation marks, and use a that-clause instead, the verb tense is not going to change. It will remain the same, even if it's a subordinate clause of a hypothetical construction. It's just unlike the normal direct/indirect speech: he said "I am Sam"; he said [that] he was Sam. – Mr. X Mar 11 '24 at 16:59
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    Therefore we can say: you would say "sam ran* a red light".* = you would say that sam ran* a red light*. Is my understanding correct? – Mr. X Mar 11 '24 at 17:00
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    Yes, that's right. I think you may have been misled by the concept of *backshifting* when a speaker is reporting what someone else said in the past. As in my example above, where it's unlikely that Sam would ever have actually said the exact words "I was Sam" - but we usually backshift that as He said [that] he was Sam". Not the same context as your example IF* (conditional / unreal future).* – FumbleFingers Mar 11 '24 at 18:20
  • Your dramatic scenarios do not provide nearly enough information to define a context, to make a choice possible. – TimR Mar 11 '24 at 20:36

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