I saw this discussion on Quora and am surprised. Should it really be Cousin, I didn’t bring up your being flat-chested and not you're?
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"you being" is better in an informal context. "Your being" sounds more formal, though it's fine in formal written contexts (but you wouldn't call someone "flat-chested" in a formal written context). – Stuart F Mar 11 '24 at 10:31
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If you're asking about something you've heard or read, always quote the relevant part in the question itself. A linked site may disappear from existence later, or it may not be even accessible without an account on that site, or from some regions. – Divizna Mar 11 '24 at 17:35
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This is somewhat of a duplicate of When to use an object pronoun or a possessive adjective before a gerund – Laurel Mar 11 '24 at 18:41
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@Divizna How about you read the question again? The whole sentence IS quoted. You have the link, I suggest you double check it. – d-b Mar 11 '24 at 19:04
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You're not giving me the context in which someone is being flat-chested. It's hard for me to imagine in what situation one might be in such an unusual momentary mood. – Divizna Mar 11 '24 at 19:25
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@Divizna AFAIK "flat-chested" refers to female physical attributes. It is not a "mood". – d-b Mar 11 '24 at 23:06
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"Your" is correct. This is a gerund/participle clause, and the subject in such clauses is often in the possessive form. This is consistent with the gerund as NP and the subject of the gerund as being a determiner, such as a possessive.
They discussed my lateness.
They discussed my being late.
Don't confuse with present continuous aspects "I am being late". That isn't the grammar in these sentences. The subject could also be implied in a construction like "They discussed me being late".
James K
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Doesn't "I am being late" correspond to "you are being late"? What is "NP"? – d-b Mar 11 '24 at 08:40
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Yes, the present continuous is "You are being flat-chested" (but this is non-idiomatic since flat-chested is unlikely to be a temporary state) An NP is a noun phrase. A noun phrase like "lateness" can have a determiner "my lateness". A gerund "being late" likewise may its subject in the possessive form "my being late". It would be ungrammatical to say "They discussed I am being late". A present continuous clause is not permitted as the complement of "discussed". – James K Mar 11 '24 at 19:42
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In this example, "being flat-chested" is a noun phrase. We often create noun phrases for qualities or attributes, and common nouns are used with articles or determiners, possessive pronouns etc (such as 'your', in this example).
Noun phrases function as nouns; we use them in the same way:
- I didn't mention your hunchback (noun)
- I didn't mention your having a hunchback (noun phrase).
'You're' is a shortening of you are, which would normally be followed by an adjective. 'Flat-chested' is an adjective, but when part of a noun phrase the whole thing functions as a noun. So, you could say "you're flat-chested". However, calling someone flat-chested in most contexts would be impolite at best, and can be offensive at worst. Assuming that this is an exchange between friends, perhaps making this attribute something they have rather than something they are is slightly kinder.
Astralbee
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I wouldn't go along with what you say. I'd say that "being flat-chested" is a verb phrase functioning as the predicate of the non-finite clause "Your being flat-chested" ( with "your"as subject) which is functioning as complement of the preposition "up". – BillJ Mar 11 '24 at 16:11
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@BillJ What? 'Flat-chested' is a verb phrase?? So you mean someone who is flat-chested has been chested until they were flat? Who did the chesting? Did they chest themselves? Or did they ask a friend to chest them? – Astralbee Mar 11 '24 at 18:58
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@Astralbee The linked post at Quora did indeed describe an impolite comment. Wouldn't "you're" make more sense if you actually want to be impolite in this situation? – d-b Mar 11 '24 at 19:02
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@d-b it might be a matter of opinion, but there are many contexts where it is considered politer to say someone has something rather than is something. Like, 'person with a disability' is generally preferred over nouns like 'cripple' or 'invalid'. So "you are flat chested" may be less polite than "you have a flat chest". – Astralbee Mar 11 '24 at 19:10
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@Astralbee The point of the original post was that it was impolite and that impoliteness had positive consequences (no more family events). – d-b Mar 11 '24 at 23:08
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@Astralbee I suggest you read my comment properly. I said that being flat-chested is a verb phrase functioning as predicate in the clause "your being flat-chested". It most certainly is not a noun phrase -- that would be a ridiculous analysis. The same applies to your example "your having a hunchback". Again, this is a non-finite clause with "your" as subject and the verb phrase "having a hunchback" as predicate. Note that in both examples, accusative "you" could replace genitive "your". – BillJ Mar 12 '24 at 12:46
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The possessive "your" is used in this case is refers to the attribute of being flat-chested. Similar to "your pleasant manner", or "your great speed on the track", etc.
Seattle guy
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1I'd say that "your" is subject of the non-finite clause "your being flat chested". It is neither semantically nor grammatically the same structure as "your pleasant manner", which is simply a genitive noun phrase. – BillJ Mar 12 '24 at 08:14
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Definitely not "you're". It would not be idiomatic to say "I didn't bring up that you are being bald" for example. We don't use being with physical traits. But we could say "I didn't mention that you are being awarded the Nobel Prize in Slapstick Comedy" or "... that you are being especially difficult about the contract terms".
being flat-chested is not a noun-phrase but a verb phrase that is predicated of the preceding pronoun. It is sometimes called a "participial phrase".
Very often in colloquial speech one hears the objective case:
bring up me being
bring up you being
bring up him | her | it being
bring up us being
bring up you being
bring up them being
For more than a century teachers would try to correct a perceived ungrammaticality there and insist on the possessive, on the basis that being was nominal, a gerund:
bring up my being
bring up your being
bring up his | her | its
bring up our being
bring up your being
bring up their being
But the objective case is grammatical in that context, and the possessive is nowadays regarded by many as an imposition of Latin grammar onto English.
TimR
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1I think it's better to say that "being flat-chested" is a verb phrase, the predicate of the non-finite clause "your being flat-chested". Not my downvote, btw. – BillJ Mar 11 '24 at 15:37
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