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I think I often hear this structure in commands or requests "do as I say / ask..." or "do as I tell you"

So, "to do as I tell you" is a verb.

I am not sure if I put that verb into a sentence, will it sound natural anymore.

For example, "He did as I told you" or "You hate doing as I tell you".

I don't think "He did as I told you" or "You hate doing as I tell you" are grammatically wrong because I just put the correct verb "to do as I tell you" in a sentence, I didn't change the verb.

But, It seems some people said they are not natural. They said it's better to say "He did what I told him to do" and "You hate doing what I tell you to do".

My question is Why can we say "do as I tell you" but can not "He did as I told you" or "You hate doing as I tell you"?

English is very hard. A phrase, which can be used in a command, might sound awkward in a sentence.

Also, why "Do as I tell you" is correct but "You hate doing as I tell you" is not correct?

See these sentences:

1-"cook dinner"

2-"you hate cooking dinner" / "You don't seem to like cooking dinner"

3-"Do as I tell you"

4-"You hate doing as I tell you" / "You don't seem to like doing as I tell you"

I just put "you hate" or "You don't seem to like" in front of the verb. That's all.

But why the number 2 "you hate cooking dinner" / "You don't seem to like cooking dinner" sounds ok but the number 4 "You hate doing as I tell you" / "You don't seem to like doing as I tell you" doesn't?

That is the main part of this question.

Tom
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  • The title should read: "You hate doing what I tell you [to do].“ the part in square brackets can be left out. It is different construct from "do as I say/tell" – Mari-Lou A Feb 25 '24 at 12:55
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    Where did you hear or read that you can say 'do as I tell'? – Michael Harvey Feb 25 '24 at 13:07
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    It's Do as I tell you. In this sense (as in to speak words, to say something), tell is a transitive verb and requires an object. For example: You tell me, I tell you, he tells someone, I tell him, etc. – Billy Kerr Feb 25 '24 at 13:15
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    @BillyKerr You. And you can say Do as you're told!. I heard that a lot as kid. – Michael Harvey Feb 25 '24 at 13:19
  • @tom There's a related question here, if not a duplicate: What is the difference between “say” and “tell”? – Billy Kerr Feb 25 '24 at 13:26
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    do as I say, do as I ask BUT do as I tell you [to do] – Lambie Feb 25 '24 at 14:37
  • @BillyKerr, I understood the difference between "say" and "tell" ok, I just got mixed up. That is worth to talk about. Try to focus on the main part of the question – Tom Feb 25 '24 at 15:04
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    @tom I am focussing on your question. Say is often intranstive (e.g. Do as I say) and requires no object, but in this sense tell is transitive, and requires an object. This is part of the difference between say and tell. – Billy Kerr Feb 25 '24 at 15:07
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    The word "hate" is an intense word. You should use it cautiously. In particular I would recommend never using "hate" about a person. And never saying what someone else hates, unless you are reporting what they say. So, I'd be cautious about "You hate...". Are you really sure that their feeling are that strong? – James K Feb 25 '24 at 15:09
  • @JamesK - yes, that's another issue. Better to say "You don't seem to like doing . . . " – Billy Kerr Feb 25 '24 at 15:11
  • @BillyKerr, try not to dig into my mistake of "say" and "tell". I got a mixed up, that's all. That is not worth to talk about. Instead, try to focus on the key part of the question: why "Do as I tell you" is correct but "You hate doing as I tell you" is not correct. That is all this question about – Tom Feb 25 '24 at 15:13
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    @tom with respect - you asked the question, and now you don't seem to like the answer. If you don't want honest answers, then that's not my problem. It's yours. And note: I have already told you why. I am done with this now, so there's no need to post any more comments directed towards me. – Billy Kerr Feb 25 '24 at 15:16
  • "Do as I do" which is imperative, is the same as telling someone "Do the thing(s) that I am saying, but don't copy my actions" it is a different meaning from "Do what I tell you“ which means I expect you to obey my requests/instructions/commands. Imagine a boss talking to their worker. – Mari-Lou A Feb 25 '24 at 16:13
  • “He did as I told you” would be unusual but perfectly fine: say I explained to you how to fix the brakes of a car but you didn’t listen, however, your colleague listened and followed the instructions I gave you. – gnasher729 Feb 26 '24 at 11:40
  • The verbs like, dislike, hate, adore (and you can look up the full list) can take gerunds. So: like (declarative or negative) + doing as I tell you is fine. [by the way: Why does x sound (whatver)] Anyway, please stop changing your questions every time you ask one. – Lambie Feb 27 '24 at 15:11
  • And the reason "people" say that: "He did what I told him to do" is better is because not many would switch people like this: "He did as I told you". A third party did what I told you to do. It's not the grammar at all. – Lambie Feb 27 '24 at 15:18

2 Answers2

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So, "to do as I tell" is a verb. it is not a verb, it is a phrase. The main verb is "do" but instead of "to do" it should be in the imperative voice "Do"

Do as I say is a fixed phrase today, closer to an idiom, although dictionaries classify it as a proverb. The full quote, which is still current, is derived from the 1654 Table-Talk by John Selden:

Preachers say, "Do as I say, not as I do”

Do as I tell you [to] (we must have a direct object after tell) appears to be a variation but its meaning is slightly different from the previous one. The speaker expects obedience from the listener, they are not acknowledging the hypocrisy as the 1654 quote admits.

“You can have the dam gun but I want to keep my belt. [sic] I told him to unbuckle the belt and drop them on the ground. I would take the gun and hand his belt back to him. He did as I told him.
Source: The Autobiography of Rufe LeFors

He did as I told him [to] is grammatical but I think the more common phrase structure is

"he did as he was told"

So Joseph as obedient as before did as he was told. But when he reached the land he found that one of Herods' sons was ruling over the country where Bethlehem was. He was afraid to go there as he had meant to do, so he went to Nazareth where Mary's early home used to be.
Source: Sunday School Helper (1894)

To answer the OP's question

“Is it natural to say "You hate doing as I tell"?”

No, as well as not sounding natural, it is also ungrammatical. The correct form would be

“You hate doing what I tell you [to do]”

the part in square brackets can be omitted. The sentence means that the listener strongly dislikes being told how to behave and/or ignores the speaker's instructions.

Mari-Lou A
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  • But you didn't say the difference between "You hate doing as I tell you" and “You hate doing what I tell you"? – Tom Feb 25 '24 at 14:31
  • The first is ungrammatical, the second means the listener hates being told what to do. – Mari-Lou A Feb 25 '24 at 14:32
  • You had better updated your answer because I updated my question. – Tom Feb 25 '24 at 14:46
  • But you didn't say why "Do as I tell you" is correct but "You hate doing as I tell you" is not correct? – Tom Feb 25 '24 at 14:53
  • Alos, try not to dig into my mistake of "say" and "tell". I got a mixed up, that's all. That is not worth talking about. Instead, try to focus on the key part of the question: why "Do as I tell you" is correct but "You hate doing as I tell you" is not correct – Tom Feb 25 '24 at 15:05
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    The mistake was there though, repeatedly, and it's not unusual for non-native speakers to leave out the object after "tell". It's a common error in writing. My first comment included "tell" with the pronoun but it's only when I posted the answer that you realised the question title and the example were ungrammatical. Look at when people said it was not natural–you even quoted their answers, and they all included the object pronoun. So... from my experience and what you wrote I wasn't digging into anything. I was blunt and truthful when I said "You hate doing as I tell" is ungrammatical. – Mari-Lou A Feb 25 '24 at 15:44
  • You tried hard not to answer my question. Also, I updated my question already. But you can not answer why "Do as I tell you" sound ok but "You hate doing as I tell you" does not. But why both "cook dinner" and "you hate cooking dinner" are ok. You just don't know do you? – Tom Feb 25 '24 at 15:50
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    Your now-deleted comment asked what was the difference in meaning between "Do as I say" and "I hate doing as you tell” . I edited and explained the difference in meaning. You deleted the comment. Now you have changed the question, which I saw exactly 10 minutes ago. NOW you want to say why you can't say "You hate doing as I tell you" That's a different question. I spent time composing an answer to an older question, I did the research, I looked for references and supporting evidence. Now, you're asking me to scrap all of that out and start afresh? – Mari-Lou A Feb 25 '24 at 15:54
  • There is no difference inasmuch as "you hate doing" follows the same pattern as the one cited by you, e.g. You hate cooking. The difference is in the usage of "as I tell you", you need instead the pronoun what if it's to be grammatical. You hate doing what (the things) I tell you to do – Mari-Lou A Feb 25 '24 at 16:05
  • This is from a chatbot: "I did as you told me" implies that you followed the instructions or guidance given by the person you are addressing. It suggests that you followed their specific directions or requests without deviation. The emphasis here is on the act of following the instructions exactly as they were given. – Tom Feb 26 '24 at 02:13
  • And this is also from a chatbot: On the other hand, "I did what you told me" suggests that you carried out the general or overall task or command given by the person. It implies that you completed the task or followed the command, but it doesn't necessarily imply that you followed the instructions in a strict or precise manner. The emphasis here is on the completion of the task rather than the exact details of how it was done. – Tom Feb 26 '24 at 02:14
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These are both idiomatic:

You hate doing as I tell you.

You hate doing what I tell you.

There is very little practical difference in meaning. The word as refers to manner, how you want them to act or behave. The word what refers to the substance of your instruction, the "things" you tell them to do. But the same instruction could be perceived in either way, as act or action.

If you want to use the word tell to mean "instruct or command" you need an object:

Do as I tell you.

Do as I tell ungrammatical.

Do as I say you ungrammatical

Do as I say.

TimR
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