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I am having a hard time grasping the definition of the term 'long vowel sounds', a long vowel sound is defined as a sound with the same pronunciation as its letter. The long vowel a, e, i, o sounds all follow this definition, while the long vowel u sound doesn't. There are two long vowel sounds for letter u, while there is actually only one pronunciation for the letter u.

Devin Johw
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    It might help if you give examples of words that you think have the long and short versions of the vowel. And do you mean a vowel or a vowel sound? – user81561 Dec 17 '23 at 14:09
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    Sorry, I actually mean the vowel sound. –  Dec 17 '23 at 14:27
  • I've modified my post. –  Dec 17 '23 at 14:30
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    Where did you get your definitions of "short vowel" and "long vowel" from? And what dialect are you talking about? – alphabet Dec 17 '23 at 15:04
  • It's just a quirk of the language. The a, e, i and o have many sound variations, but they too have one version of the letter's pronunciation. – Weather Vane Dec 17 '23 at 18:05
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    Are you talking about the sort of "phonics" that we teach very young children when they're first learning to read English? If so, that ancient convention doesn't really correspond to sounds as actually made in English (/ɑ/, /e/, /i/, /o/, /u/), let alone with vocalic length, so it's hard to understand what you're asking here. Letters don't "make" sounds. What children's phonics book call "a long A" is really the /e/ phoneme, and what they call "a long E" is really the /i/ phoneme. See also the Great Vowel Shift for why these are all messed around backwards. – tchrist Dec 17 '23 at 19:04

2 Answers2

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This is a notable lie to children.

Native speakers, before they learn to read, don't think about phonemes and so on. They just know words. They know "Cat" and "Kate", and "Sit" and "Sight".

When teachers of very young children are teaching them to read, they might teach "The letter "a" has two sounds a short sound /a/ and a long sound /ei/. The letter "i" has two sounds, a short sound /i/ and a long sound /ai/. The letter "e" has two sounds /e/ and /i:/". So the word "Cat" has a short "a" and "Kate" has a long "a".

These pairs of sounds developed from the great vowel shift in English, in which the long /a:/ sound changed to a dipthong /ei/ and so on. (its more complex than that but you can read the details yourself)

Don't confuse these with what the linguist calls long and short vowels. In English, vowel length isn't particularly important. The teacher is lying to teach the children how to read simple words.

An English second language learner needs to learn the sounds of the words, so this idea of "long" and "short" vowel sounds isn't particularly useful. So don't worry about it. It is not something you need to know to speak and read English well.

James K
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  • Minor nitpick: the "short sound" for i is /ɪ/, and for e is /ε/. Irrelevant to your point, but I'd hate for someone to get the wrong idea! – Hearth Dec 18 '23 at 16:41
  • @Hearth They are, but using symbols from outside the English alphabet will just confuse kids still learning to read. The Kenyon and Knott phonemic system from this ELU answer has far better symbols, at least for American English, but you’re stuck locking out kids because some aren’t in the alphabet. BTW, tense-vs-lax works ᴍᴜᴄʜ better than long-vs-short (except for A), with the short/lax ones using “special symbols”: A:[a=ɑ, æ] E:[e, ɛ] I:[i, ɪ] O:[o, ɔ] U:[u, ʊ]. But now the Great Vowel Shift hoses you since name-wise ‹A› is /e/ and ‹E› is /i/. – tchrist Dec 18 '23 at 17:16
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You're correct that, except for U, vowels are named after their long sounds. With some of the vowels we need to add an extra letter to indicate the long version

A long - Kate, hate, mate
A short - cat, hat, mat

E long - feet, meet
E short - get, met

This also works for I and O
Mitt mite
hop hope etc

U has a simple short version, in a similar pattern to the others - tub, cub, rub etc, where an accent variation still remains internally consistent.

On the other hand, though called 'yoo', has two long pronunciations - basically with or without the Y sound at the head [some might call it an E sound]. There's the simple 'oo', or the diphthong 'yoo' or 'eoo'. The indicators for this are much weaker, and can change quite drastically between British & US English.

In British English, You Tube is yoo tyoob [or even chyoob/chewb].
US English often drops the 'y' sound in these, giving Yoo Toob.
Similarly with Tuesday - toosday [US] vs tyoosday or chewsday [UK]. [I won't go into the British dropping of T down to CH or the US T to D drop.]

So, though there are some words we agree on; ruby [roobi], lunar [loona], frugal [froogəl] , there are many we disagree; tube [as mentioned] tune, altitude, attitude, produce. In UK English these have the 'yoo' sound, in US the 'oo' (there are variations even inside these large accent groups, not everybody pronounces each of these words according to that general rule.)

I can't think of any way to be able to know these just by reading for the first time. There is no hard and fast rule that I'm aware of. You just have to learn which is which for the specific accent you are trying to emulate.

To elongate our earlier short examples, we also see the inconsistency - tube, cube, rube. [toob or tyoob, cyoob & roob.]

Whilst looking for a more comprehensive online guide to this, I came across https://literacylearn.com/215-long-u-words/ at which point I realised just how many of those pronunciations are not trans-Atlantic, or even consistent between different accents either side of the pond.

DoneWithThis.
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    Makes it so worthwhile, after spending over an hour on this, for it to be downvoted inside just three minutes, with no comment. It's no wonder I can only bear this stack for a couple of months at a time before having to stay away from it for several months. – DoneWithThis. Dec 17 '23 at 17:22
  • Not me, but your description of U seems a bit off. The same pattern is with the short 'tub' and long 'tube' (with or without the 'y' sound, which seems to be a regional thing). – Weather Vane Dec 17 '23 at 17:43
  • The OP didn't actually ask about the short pronunciations, I was trying to quickly get through how we arrive at the long ones, then how U has two variants. I can put a short example in. – DoneWithThis. Dec 17 '23 at 17:46
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    There is more then one long version of other vowels too, such as with A: the second syllable of 'garage' is not pronounced the same as 'greengage', though both are long. – Weather Vane Dec 17 '23 at 17:49
  • Garage is French. I say 'garridge', like porridge, what do you say? We can't run the entire gamut of words for which UK/US have massively different pronunciations. Bernard, basil, oregano - most of which are 'recent' European imports. – DoneWithThis. Dec 17 '23 at 17:52
  • You added the short U, but in UK there is a wide variation in pronunciation of 'pub'. There don't seem to be straightforward "rules", as exemplified by your 'garridge', whereas Cambridge Dictionary has the "French" pronunciation for AmE and BrE. – Weather Vane Dec 17 '23 at 17:55
  • We simply don't have room to include every accent. Generally, with known, complicated, exceptions anyone who pronounces 'pub' as 'pab' or 'cat' as 'ket' will have that pronunciation pretty much across their whole lexicon of similar words. And again… garage is French, anyone who pronounces it ɡær.ɑːʒ is copying the French… so all bets are off. – DoneWithThis. Dec 17 '23 at 17:58
  • I think our asker is being confused by anomalies like how what children's phonics book call "a long A" is really the /e/ phoneme, and what they call "a long E" is really the /i/ phoneme, and that vowel length is not even being represented here (like how bead has a longer /i/ sound than beat has yet neither has the letter I in it). – tchrist Dec 17 '23 at 19:15
  • @DoneWithThis I gave you +1 but maybe you could also mention how "u" isn't just a random exception to the pattern? I believe (I'm not an expert here at all, so ignore this if I'm wrong) that the "yoo" pronunciation is older than the "oo" pronunciation, and that's why the "oo" pronunciation is called "yod-dropping" (because the 'implicit' y-sound that used to be part of the long 'u' sound gets removed). So, if "yoo" is the original pronunciation, then the long version of the letter u's sound did actually used to be the same as the letter's name, but it has since diverged. – Quack E. Duck Dec 17 '23 at 22:47
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    @DoneWithThis. - I say 'garage' the French way, I always have, it's the way my parents and teachers did. I don't think any of them spoke French. 'Garridge' was a 'Cockney' way of saying it and frowned upon both at home and at school (I don't think local authority schools try to 'gentrify' kids these days). – Michael Harvey Dec 17 '23 at 23:03
  • @MichaelHarvey - https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/227572/why-does-the-word-garage-have-so-many-different-pronunciations I grew up in the north & had never heard the French pronunciation outside French lessons or on TV until I moved to London, other than from the Hyacinth Bucket brigade. I still think it's the wrong word to be getting hung up on. – DoneWithThis. Dec 18 '23 at 09:31
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    I would argue that the name of the letter u follows the same pattern since its name is indeed the same as (one of) its "long" sound(s). Words like use, abuse_, muse etc. have a u which is pronounced the same as the name of the letter (at least in my accent). – terdon Dec 18 '23 at 14:36