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What's the difference between the following?

  1. It will really be great if you can pass the salsa over here.
  2. It would really be great if you could pass the salsa over here.
  1. If you move your chair a bit, we can all sit down.
  2. If you moved your chair a bit, we could all sit down.

From I have learnt in grammar books, the first conditional is used to express a real possibility, while the second conditional is used to express an imagined situation. Since I'm not imagining a situation, and this is a real situation, I would use the first conditional for #1 and #2.

ColleenV
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Nyambek
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  • There have been many questions here about the difference between will and would. Basically, what you have learned to call the 'second conditional' makes the request a bit more polite. You would use (3) among a group of friends of your own age, (4) when speaking to an older person or someone you don't know well. Or, even more politely "If you wouldn't mind moving your chair...". – Kate Bunting Dec 12 '23 at 14:03
  • @KateBunting Those sentences are about the first and second conditional. Is the first conditional impolite? As I have learnt, the second conditional is talking about a hypothetical situation. The speaker just imagines what would happen if the person moved the chair/passed the salsa. But in this case, I'm speaking directly to the person and I think this is a real situation. Shouldn't it instead use the first conditional? – Nyambek Dec 12 '23 at 14:44
  • I didn't say that the 'first conditional' was impolite, I said that using the 'second conditional' made a request more polite, by treating the other person's doing what you ask as a hypothetical situation. – Kate Bunting Dec 12 '23 at 14:56
  • @KateBunting OK. Is it fine to use the first conditional to make a request or suggestion? – Nyambek Dec 12 '23 at 14:59
  • I've already told you that (3) could be used among friends. (1) is not a natural thing to say; if you don't need to be extra polite, just say "Could you pass the salsa, please?" – Kate Bunting Dec 12 '23 at 15:08
  • @KateBunting I understand. So the first conditional can't be used to make a request, can't it? – Nyambek Dec 12 '23 at 15:17
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    Well, people sometimes say things like "If you could just pass me the salsa..." (implying "...I would be grateful" or "...it would be great"). But, as an English learner, you're safest to stick with "Could you please...?" – Kate Bunting Dec 12 '23 at 15:24
  • The difference is one of modality, with preterite "would" + "could" being a remote conditional, and present tense "will" + "can" being an open conditional. In the remote kind, the condition is presented as a relatively remote possibility, while in the open kind it is neutral as to whether the condition will be met. – BillJ Dec 12 '23 at 16:12
  • @KateBunting Thanks. I think the use of the second conditilnal makes the speaker put less pressure on the interlocutor when used to make a request. Am I right? "If you could just pass the salsa,..." – Nyambek Dec 12 '23 at 16:13
  • @BillJ I think in this case "would" + "could" is not meant as a remote possibility or something that the speaker is musing over and thinking about. The speaker wants the listener to pass the salsa over here. This is maybe another use of the second conditional. What do you think? – Nyambek Dec 12 '23 at 16:19
  • I was just generalising. The preterite introduces a tentative meaning expressing a rather vague element of tentativeness, diffidence, extra politeness or the like. – BillJ Dec 12 '23 at 16:28
  • @BillJ I don't understand the term "tentative" here. Do you mean the speaker is not sure? It would really be great if you could pass the salsa over here / If you moved your chair a bit, it would .... Here the speaker is not sure if the person will pass the sassa/move the chair a bit. Am I right? – Nyambek Dec 12 '23 at 17:04
  • I think the use of the second conditilnal makes the speaker put less pressure on the interlocutor when used to make a request. That's what I meant by 'making it more polite'. "Just supposing that you were kind enough to do this thing for me, I would appreciate it." – Kate Bunting Dec 13 '23 at 09:30
  • @KateBunting When making a request, the construction it would be nice/great/helpful/appreciated if… [you could do whatever/whatever could be done] is common, isn't it? Why is the cronstruction "it will be great/nice/helpful if you could ..." not natural? In form, they are the same. – Nyambek Dec 13 '23 at 10:55
  • It's one of those things you just have to accept as 'that's how English works'. "It will be nice if you can do this" is just a statement that you hope something will be possible; "It would be nice if you could..." can be a tactful request. – Kate Bunting Dec 13 '23 at 13:07
  • @KateBunting "It will be nice if you can do this" is just a statement that you hope something will be possible. Do you mean this use is for something is going to happen? – Nyambek Dec 13 '23 at 13:25
  • @Nyambek No: "Could you pass salt, please", for example, is an indirect speech act -- a question about your ability used as a polite request. Here, the preterite "could" is regarded as slightly more diffident, more polite. This is one type of tentative use (there are others). – BillJ Dec 13 '23 at 14:30
  • @BillJ Thanks. As for the form "it would be great/nice if you could...", it's used to make a request. Do you also use the form "it will be nice/great if you can...?" If yes, what's the difference? I know the it would be great if you could form is a polite request. But what about the form "it will br great if you can...?" Do you also use it to make a request? – Nyambek Dec 13 '23 at 14:43
  • We might say "It will be good if you can be here for Christmas" to someone who knows they are invited, but doesn't yet know if they will be able to come. – Kate Bunting Dec 13 '23 at 14:46
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    @Nyambek I think you should now do some research on this topic, using a modern grammar book and usage guide. – BillJ Dec 13 '23 at 16:22
  • @KateBunting So "will" implies that you are definitely going to do it, doesn't it? – Nyambek Dec 14 '23 at 04:57
  • More than 20 comments, and not one answer. Please remember that the comment section is for clarifications about the question itself, not for getting answers, let alone more detail on an answer in a comment. – gotube Dec 14 '23 at 05:19
  • @gotube - I didn't 'answer' in the first place because there have been so many questions about would that I thought this one likely to be closed as a duplicate. – Kate Bunting Dec 14 '23 at 09:04
  • Nyambek, what don't you understand about 'someone who knows they are invited, but doesn't yet know if they will be able to come'? – Kate Bunting Dec 14 '23 at 09:07
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    This thread has gone on far too long. The semantic contrast between present tense verbs like "will" and preterite verbs like "would" has been repeatedly explained. – BillJ Dec 14 '23 at 09:21
  • @KateBunting I've been handling lots of "20 or more comments" flags lately, and they take a long time to handle. In almost every case, it's because the comment section is being used for something other than clarifying the question. Your first comment started out great, but then turned into a partial answer, which started a back-and-forth of OP asking about things that should have been in the question to begin with. If you think this question should be closed as a dupe, then I think it's better to find a dupe candidate and CV, or ask that someone else do so than to partially answer the question – gotube Dec 14 '23 at 21:35
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    Does this answer your question? "Will" or "Would"? – Lambie Dec 22 '23 at 20:29

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