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I have read a sentence:

Wake me at nine bells.

enter image description here

When to wake the people?At nine o'clock?

Paul Tanenbaum
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showkey
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    Each watch lasted from 1 bell to 8 bells. You never heard 9 bells, so it means 'do not wake me'. – Michael Harvey Nov 10 '23 at 14:00
  • And a bell rang every 30 minutes, so unrelated to 9 on a clock. – Yosef Baskin Nov 10 '23 at 15:15
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    This is in the dictionary. Basic meaning. Vote to close. – Lambie Nov 10 '23 at 17:24
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    What is the source of this? It seems to be an exceeding specialised expression, and not something I would expect to find in material aimed at English learners, but the style looks like an animation for children. – James K Nov 10 '23 at 21:39
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    @Lambie which dictionary? I googled the phrase and searched several dictionaries, but only found it in Merriam Webster under just "bell." And even then it only explained what the first 8 were. – MJD Nov 10 '23 at 21:47
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    Found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOOvk7_zyDI Oxford Learning Tree... but this is not an expression that the children that this is aimed at would know. It's just meant to be a bit of "sea captain talk" to add some colour – James K Nov 10 '23 at 21:47
  • @JamesK Kids books use whatever terms they need to tell the story. This is about ships so yes, one would expect it. Merriam Webster: c : a half hour period of a watch on shipboard indicated by the strokes of a bell see Ship's Bells Table – Lambie Nov 11 '23 at 17:17
  • Yes, but the kids book doesn't need to use this term to tell the story. The story is about "knowing when to stop". The captain is tired and Biff and Wilf will relieve him. There is no significance to the "nine bells". The captain could have said nothing at all and the story could be exactly the same. It is just some "nautical colour" something a sea captain might say. But something no child would understand. 99.9% of adults wouldn't get it either. In fact, there is little evidence that the author understood the meaning. – James K Nov 11 '23 at 17:44
  • @JamesK You make all sorts of statements that do not ring true. First, there is no such thing as nine bells, they only go to eight. Ship's bells are found throughout literature and tales of the sea or sailing. I learned all sorts of maritime lore from books like Treasure Island. Chpt. 16: IT was about half past one— three bells in the sea phrase—that the two boats went ashore from the Hispaniola. – Lambie Nov 11 '23 at 18:10
  • @JamesK Not everything is already written. That's why there such a thing as creativity. And Paul's answer is very good. How do you know what the author knows or doesn't know? That's presumptuous. And we have no link to go and see., do we? – Lambie Nov 11 '23 at 19:16
  • Let us continue this discussion in chat. – James K Nov 11 '23 at 19:31
  • @JamesK It's used for colour, but also it's clearly a little throwaway gag for adult viewers. – Chuck Le Butt Nov 12 '23 at 14:38
  • Adults won't get it either (unless they are sailors) It could be an easter egg gag, but it's more likely just a careless author – James K Nov 12 '23 at 14:39

3 Answers3

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Traditionally, watches at sea—essentially shifts when any one portion of the crew, particularly the lookout (whence the name)—were four hours long. To keep track of the passage of the watch, the ship’s bell was rung every 30 minutes, indicating how many half hours had passed. Thus, for instance, 6:30 is called “five bells” and is rung as “Ding-ding, ding-ding, ding,” indicating that two and a half hours has passed since the start of the 4 o’clock watch. The end of a watch (and therefore the start of the next) is rung as eight bells.

So at nine bells is not something that would be used literally by any mariner. Depending on context, it could be an ironic way of saying never—a bit like the term eleventh frame used in the context of bowling to mean after a game because games consist of ten frames. Or, if no irony is intended, it could merely reflect the speaker’s ignorance of how ships’ bells strike time and be intended to convey the meaning 9:00.

Paul Tanenbaum
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    Golf courses have 18 holes. The '19th hole' is the club bar. – Michael Harvey Nov 10 '23 at 16:35
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    Yes, @MichaelHarvey, when I was a kid, the local bowling alley had “The Eleventh Frame Lounge.” – Paul Tanenbaum Nov 10 '23 at 16:37
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    The 11th Commandment, according to my father, was 'Thou shalt not be found out'. – Michael Harvey Nov 10 '23 at 16:49
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    This is surely correct, but the six-year-olds that this animation is aimed at (it's an Oxford learning tree, "Chip and Biff" story) would not know this meaning. – James K Nov 10 '23 at 21:49
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    @JamesK If it pushes the child to ask its parents what the phrase means, it might help encourage enquiring minds. – TripeHound Nov 10 '23 at 23:07
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    I very much doubt that modern parents would know this phrase (unless they happen to be experts on naval slang) – James K Nov 10 '23 at 23:24
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    @JamesK - Ah, modern parents! Don't get me started... – Michael Harvey Nov 11 '23 at 10:04
  • @MichaelHarvey or any landlubbers. In fact are there any other examples of "nine bells" being used like this? Or is this something that the writers of the story made up (by analogy with "the eleventh frame" etc. I can find one example, and it's obscure: https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/22252/pg22252.txt – James K Nov 11 '23 at 17:50
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    " a passenger on board a packet ship once asked a sailor what time they would heave the log. 'The log,' said the sailor, 'they always heave the log at nine bells. When you hear nine bells strike, go aft, and you'll see them.' So the passenger watched and counted the bells every time they struck, all the morning, in the hopes to hear nine bells; whereas they never strike more than eight bells." – James K Nov 11 '23 at 17:50
  • On the other hand I can find several examples of poorly written texts (fanfics and the like) that use "nine bells" to mean "nine o'clock" eg https://www.fanfiction.net/s/3719472/4/The-Library-of-the-Mighty-Black-Pearl or old student newspapers https://archive.org/details/1935-03-22.THENORTHWESTMISSOURIAN – James K Nov 11 '23 at 17:58
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    As though we required further proof of the collapse of Western Civilization, @JamesK. – Paul Tanenbaum Nov 11 '23 at 18:10
  • Oh boy: there are all sorts of novels for kids (and adults) that contain seafaring terms. Of course, nine bells does not exist. Eight is the limit but this seems to be some kind of joke. Heave ho, my hearties. Do parents know that? Paul has given us a good answer here. – Lambie Nov 11 '23 at 18:13
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    Given the context, I very much suspect that the writer did mean "9 o'clock", and either doesn't know or doesn't care about the original meaning of such phrases. – Colin Fine Nov 11 '23 at 18:18
  • If anyone is interested in this kind of thing, I can't recommend too highly the Jack Aubrey novels of Patrick O'Brian. The audiobooks read -- perfectly-- by Patrick Tull are good. – Michael Harvey Nov 11 '23 at 19:40
  • The Surprise, stored for a very long voyage, was low in the water, yet even so some twelve feet of wet side rose from the sea-level; and the steps, though wide, were startlingly shallow. Stephen and Martin stood immediately above him, by a gangway stanchion, leaning down and giving advice: Standish was the only man belonging to the ship who knew less about the sea than they (he had never left the land before) and they did not dislike sharing their knowledge. – Michael Harvey Nov 11 '23 at 19:47
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As discussed, this literally doesn't make any sense. The system of bells on board ships only goes to 8 bells.

It is possible that this was inserted as a deliberate piece of irony - with the meaning of "never". Just as you can imagine someone saying, "I'll do it when the clock strikes thirteen." to mean "I'll never do it." I consider this unlikely, as it is too obscure for the intended readers of this book (young children). Though it might be an "Easter egg", a hidden joke for any sailors reading the book with their children.

It is possible that this ship is using some non-standard system of bells. There are systems with five-hour watches, which would go to 10 bells. Again I consider this unlikely. It is simply a random detail that is to obscure to appear in a book which has a specific purpose of "teaching young children to use a full stop".

It is possible that this is simply a mistake by the author. The author may be aware (from reading Treasure Island) that sailors use expressions like "At three bells". They neither know nor care what the actual meaning of this would be, and has incorrectly assumed that this means "at three o'clock". I consider this to be most likely. The author intends the meaning "Wake me at nine o'clock" (which a child would understand to mean "waking up later than normal" and has incorrectly assumed that this is what "at nine bells" means.

The system of ship's bells is something that the young children who read this book, and 99% of adults know nothing about, except as a nautical expression; something sailor say, like "Heave ho" or "three sheets to the wind"

James K
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    I was going to adjust my answer to reflect the possibility of ignorance, and now I see you’ve stepped up. I’ll add it to mine as well, though, because I do think it’s an improvement. – Paul Tanenbaum Nov 11 '23 at 19:23
  • Nine (church) bells were traditionally tolled after the death of a man, and six for a woman, so I am wondering if something darker might have been intended – Michael Harvey Nov 11 '23 at 19:52
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    Even less likely! Come on, It's a book about Biff learning a simple grammar lesson (use a full stop", with a simple moral "Know when to stop". It has a dog called "Floppy" with a magical key that grants wishes! Nothing deep or dark. – James K Nov 11 '23 at 19:58
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Before marine mechanical clocks were available, time was tracked with an hourglass. Actually, a half-hour sand-glass. The day started at local noon, determined by the maximum elevation of the sun above the horizon. This was determined with a sextant during the noon navigational fix. When the senior navigator (usually the ship's Master) determined it was "high noon", he would announce "make it noon" and the hourglass would be flipped, starting the day

Each half hour the glass would be flipped and the bell rung, between 1 and 8 times to count off the half-hours. Crew shifts, or "watches" were 4 hours long so after "8 bells", the watch would change and a half hour later the bell would ring once. The bell would never ring 9 times.

Each time the bell sounded, the ship's magnetic heading and speed would be recorded on a slate for later calculation of the dead-reckoned position. Speed would be determined by heaving overboard a "log" on a string. The string fed out for a standard length of time measured with a different sand glass, about 30 seconds. The length of string was measured and converted to speed. The string was knotted at standard intervals, so the sailors could just count knots as they slipped by. Speed was then recorded on the slate as so many "knots" which corresponded to nautical miles per hour.

To this day, mariners still refer to their speedometer as a "log" and refer to speed in knots. Any written or electronic navigation record is still a "log".

For centuries, the Royal Navy would "press gang" (kidnap) citizens to serve in the navy. If the men survived the service, they would return to civilian life with a vocabulary enriched with nautical terms.

Many English expressions have origins in naval terms:

  • Booby hatch
  • Leeway
  • 3 square meals
  • By and large
  • Copper bottomed
  • Taken aback
  • Toe the line
  • Pipe down
  • In the doldrums
Chuck Le Butt
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Woody
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