4

There is generally a difference between can and may in the sense of 'possibility'. Notice, for example, that in We may see you tomorrowcan could not replace may without a considerable change in meaning. There is, however, a rather formal use of may where the meaning of 'possibility' is the same as for can. Thus in Transitive verbs in English may be either active or passivecan could be substitute for may with no change of meaning. This use of may is typically found in formal contexts such as in academic writing. This difference between the 'possibility' senses of can and may is discussed in section 121.

(from section 116 of <Meaning and the English Verb 3rd ed.> by Geoffrey Leech)

(In the sense of possibility) may represents 'factual (epistemic) possibility' and can represents 'theoretical (root) possibility'.

(from section 121 of <Meaning and the English Verb 3rd ed.> by Geoffrey Leech; Here, I have added (In the sense of possibility), (epistemic), (root) for the sake of further understanding of my question.)

Let's get down to the business.

We may see you tomorrow.

We can see you tomorrow.

(Here, may means factual(epistemic) possibility, but can means theoretical(root) possibility.)

What's the difference between the meanings of these sentences?

gonju yi
  • 111
  • 5
  • 2
  • 1
    You're not contrasting "factual(epistemic)" with "theoretical(root)" possibility (whatever you think either of those mean - neither mean much to me). You're contrasting *possibility* and *ability* – FumbleFingers Aug 28 '23 at 16:59
  • @FumbleFingers No, I'm contrasting one possibility and another possibility. Please see the following content from <Meaning and the English Verb 3rd ed.> by Geoffrey Leech. There is generally a difference between can and may in the sense of 'possibility'. Notice, for example, that in We may see you tomorrow, can could not replace may without a considerable change in meaning. – gonju yi Aug 29 '23 at 09:52
  • There is, however, a rather formal use of may where the meaning of 'possibility' is the same as for can. Thus in Transitive verbs in English may be either active or passive, can could be substitute for may with no change of meaning. This use of may is typically found in formal contexts such as in academic writing. This difference between the 'possibility' senses of can and may is discussed in section 121. – gonju yi Aug 29 '23 at 10:00
  • Further, Leech says that *may* represents 'factual(epistemic) possibility' and can represents 'theoretical(root) possibility' in section 121 of his book. That' why I have said "We may see you tomorrow. We can see you tomorrow. (Here, may means factual(epistemic) possibility, but can means theoretical(root) possibility.)". – gonju yi Aug 29 '23 at 10:16
  • Who's teaching who here? I don't need to read textbooks to learn the difference between *may* and *can* in the cited examples. In that specific context, *may* always means *might* (we may, or we may not; it's a possibility, with uncertain outcome). But *can* always means *have the ability* - with the contextual implication that if the patient is agreeable, we *will* see him (where any element of "uncertainty" only arises because the patient himself could turn down the offered appointment). – FumbleFingers Aug 29 '23 at 10:40
  • @FumbleFingers Of course, the purpose of the citation is not teaching you. It is only supplement for further understanding of my question. – gonju yi Aug 29 '23 at 10:52
  • Anyway, how about It is possible that we see you tomorrow. vs. It is possible for us to see you tomorrow.? What's the difference between the meanings of these sentences? – gonju yi Aug 29 '23 at 10:55
  • We'd normally use explicit future It is possible that* we will see you tomorrow, but with or without will, that version means the same as the may* example. On the other hand, It is possible for* us to see you tomorrow* would always carry the *can* sense (It is possible for us* to do that = We have the ability = We can)*. – FumbleFingers Aug 29 '23 at 10:59
  • @FumbleFingers Then, how do you think about the following example? (A) The road can be blocked by police ('and if we do this, we might intercept the criminals'-said by one detective to another). (B) The road may be blocked by flood water ('that possibly explains why our guests haven't arrived'-dialogue between husband and wife expecting visitors). Here, 'The road can be blocked'='It is possible for the road to be blocked', and 'The road may be blocked'='It is possible that the road is bloked'. – gonju yi Aug 29 '23 at 11:14
  • If you keep going in this vein, obviously you'll eventually come up with contexts where I can't definitively pronounce on whether any given instance of *may* or *can* refers to possibility or ability (since both words *can / may* be used with either sense! :) Particularly given the fact that we're only working here with little marks on a screen, whereas real language is *spoken, within a full real-world context.* Not to mention which, sometimes the speaker and/or his audience don't even care about that distinction anyway, so to all intents and purposes it doesn't exist. – FumbleFingers Aug 29 '23 at 12:18
  • I would suggest to incorporate the quotes from the book which inspired your question into the question body. For two reasons: (1) It will spare you more explanations to people who assume something different than you mean. (2) The distinction and terminology (epistemic -- huh!) "may" not be familiar to all readers ;-). – Peter - Reinstate Monica Aug 29 '23 at 16:39
  • There seems to be considerable disagreement about what the question is actually trying to ask. Why, then, is it upvoted and not closed? – Karl Knechtel Aug 29 '23 at 23:53

4 Answers4

9

We may see you tomorrow. = It is possible that we will see you tomorrow.

  1. Epistemic Modality and Other Modalities An epistemic modal is an epistemic use of a modal term, such as “might”, “necessarily”, or “possible”. On the standard view of epistemic modals, sentences in which these modals are the main operator are used to make epistemic modal claims that attribute an epistemic modal status, either possibility or necessity, to a proposition. For example, (1)-(8) can all be used to make epistemic modal claims:

(1) Maybe it will rain tomorrow.

(2) Terry may not do well on the test.

epistemic modality

We can see you tomorrow. = We are able to see you tomorrow. [for example, our schedule is free. This is not about possibility. It's about being able to do something due to not being busy].

FumbleFingers
  • 70,966
  • 4
  • 97
  • 196
Lambie
  • 44,522
  • 4
  • 33
  • 88
  • The OP is specifically asking about contexts where both modal verbs are being used with the "possibility" sense. For example, “It can be very cold…” vs “It may be very cold…” – FumbleFingers Aug 28 '23 at 16:28
  • 4
    @FumbleFingers Nope, they asked about the difference between the two, which is what I provided. – Lambie Aug 28 '23 at 16:36
  • I beg your pardon. I didn't look much further than the title. – FumbleFingers Aug 28 '23 at 16:50
  • @Lambie I'm contrasting one possibility and another possibility. Please see the following content from <Meaning and the English Verb 3rd ed.> by Geoffrey Leech. There is generally a difference between can and may in the sense of 'possibility'. Notice, for example, that in We may see you tomorrow, can could not replace may without a considerable change in meaning. – gonju yi Aug 29 '23 at 10:20
  • There is, however, a rather formal use of may where the meaning of 'possibility' is the same as for can. Thus in Transitive verbs in English may be either active or passive, can could be substitute for may with no change of meaning. This use of may is typically found in formal contexts such as in academic writing. This difference between the 'possibility' senses of can and may is discussed in section 121. – gonju yi Aug 29 '23 at 10:23
  • Further, Leech says that *may* represents 'factual(epistemic) possibility' and can represents 'theoretical(root) possibility' in section 121 of his book. That' why I have said "We may see you tomorrow. We can see you tomorrow. (Here, may means factual(epistemic) possibility, but can means theoretical(root) possibility.)". – gonju yi Aug 29 '23 at 10:24
6

The first means it is possible that we will see you tomorrow.

The second means that we are definitely able to see you tomorrow, but without a guarantee that it will happen.

FumbleFingers
  • 70,966
  • 4
  • 97
  • 196
timchessish
  • 1,733
  • 1
  • 8
  • I'm contrasting one possibility and another possibility. Please see the following content from <Meaning and the English Verb 3rd ed.> by Geoffrey Leech. There is generally a difference between can and may in the sense of 'possibility'. Notice, for example, that in We may see you tomorrow, can could not replace may without a considerable change in meaning. – gonju yi Aug 29 '23 at 10:31
  • There is, however, a rather formal use of may where the meaning of 'possibility' is the same as for can. Thus in Transitive verbs in English may be either active or passive, can could be substitute for may with no change of meaning. This use of may is typically found in formal contexts such as in academic writing. This difference between the 'possibility' senses of can and may is discussed in section 121. – gonju yi Aug 29 '23 at 10:33
  • Further, Leech says that *may* represents 'factual(epistemic) possibility' and can represents 'theoretical(root) possibility' in section 121 of his book. That' why I have said "We may see you tomorrow. We can see you tomorrow. (Here, may means factual(epistemic) possibility, but can means theoretical(root) possibility.)". – gonju yi Aug 29 '23 at 10:35
1

In the "may" case, the possibility is about the state of the world: something may happen because the state of the world allows for it. My father and I both flew to a family reunion last year, but didn't coordinate travel plans; upon learning that we were going to share a flight, either of us could have said "we may be sitting next to each other". That is: without having discussed our seat assignments, it was epistemically possible that we would have adjacent seats.

In the "can" case, the possibility is about the ability to do something (which, of course, necessarily includes the state of the world, but there's more to it than that). Consider that same trip, but in a counterfactual world in which Dad and I were specifically trying to sit next to each other. If we were on the phone while picking our seats, he have said "row 13 is empty; if I pick 13a and you can take 13b, we can sit next to each other". That is: it is theoretically possible for us to sit next to each other on the flight.

In the "may" case, where we had already selected our seats but hadn't discussed what those selections were, "can" would be inappropriate as we didn't know whether it was still theoretically possible to arrange that (eg., maybe the flight was already fully booked, so neither of us could change our seat to sit next to the other).

"We may see you tomorrow" carries that same "may" possibility: we know (or have reason to believe) that we will be in the same general area, so it's possible that we'll see each other. For completeness' sake, that sentence can also mean that we would like to see you, but it may not be possible (eg., "we have a ton of housework but, if we get through it, we may see you tomorrow" carries much the same epistemic possibility sense, but it also implies that we want to see you tomorrow).

"We can see you tomorrow" carries the "can" possibility from the flight: it means that our schedule is open (or flexible enough) that there is room to see you - it is theoretically possible to arrange the world such that we can expect to see you tomorrow.

... which is to say that the other answers are right: in those sentences, "may" means that it's possible and "can" means that the event is highly likely (probably because both parties are working towards that goal).

So, on to your repeated comment:

There is, however, a rather formal use of may where the meaning of 'possibility' is the same as for can. Thus in Transitive verbs in English may be either active or passive, can could be substitute for may with no change of meaning. This use of may is typically found in formal contexts such as in academic writing. This difference between the 'possibility' senses of can and may is discussed in section 121.

This is a whole different scenario to the "factual/theoretical" possibility dichotomy. Academic writing is a specific, formal context; in such contexts, it is common for words to take highly-specific meanings which are related to - but not quite the same as - the words' more common meanings.

In common, vernacular English, "may" talks about possibility while often carrying a "permission" shading where "can" carries a "physically capable" one (consider the old saw about the student who asks the teacher "can I go to the bathroom?" to which the teacher responds "I don't know; can you?"). Further, "can" carries shading of intentionality ("we can see you tomorrow" carries a feeling that we want to see you tomorrow, even if it's just to get some unpleasant task taken care of). Neither of those shadings are appropriate in most academic settings - a photon needs no permission to scatter through a slit, nor does it do so with any amount of intentionality; it simply does so (except when it doesn't).

Thus, formal academic writing (as I understand it) bypasses the difference, choosing to use "may" for all non-deterministic, non-essential events ("the photon may do X" or "the subject may sit down", but "the subject must lie down in the MRI"). In a strict "theoretical possibility" sense, then, "can" can replace "may" in formal academic writing.

Compare RFC 2119, which sets out formal definitions for "may" (and a few other terms) in regards to a formal context (specifically, for other RFCs - Requests for Comment, the way that most of the standards that underlie the Internet are written). Of particular note, "can" is not defined, since its definition would necessarily either overlap with "may" or be too fine a gradation (and, thus, cause argument over which should be used in a given situation).

minnmass
  • 605
  • 3
  • 9
1

The distinction is indeed quite subtle, and in my opinion somewhat contrived. I'd almost argue that if somebody feels the need to say "epistemic" they want to say something that does not feel important enough without the word. But only almost. [Edit: After reading parts of Leech's book online I find it very refreshing. Leech indeed tries to avoid these technical terms and introduces them very reluctantly and consciously.]

Let's discuss two very neutral example sentences:

  1. "It may happen."
  2. "It can happen."

By removing people and, indeed, any particulars from the sentence, we avoid distracting additional meanings and complications. Perhaps the difference becomes already intuitively palpable.

"May" indicates that there is a factual, concrete possibility for something to indeed factually, concretely happen. "Epistemology" is the study of what is the case and how much we can know; "epistemic" refers to an actual, perceivable circumstance.

"Can", by contrast, indicates a theoretical possibility: There is nothing entirely preventing it — but we aren't concerned with particular instances of it happening.

Why did I say "contrived" above? Because upon closer inspection the two statements are logically equivalent; they just put the emphasis on a somewhat different aspect. After all, everything that actually can happen may happen as well (i.e., we should be prepared); and conversely we surely do not need to prepare for contingencies that are absolutely impossible and simply cannot happen.

  • Comments have been moved to chat; please do not continue the discussion here. Before posting a comment below this one, please review the purposes of comments. Comments that do not request clarification or suggest improvements usually belong as an answer, on [meta], or in [chat]. Comments continuing discussion may be removed. – Laurel Sep 16 '23 at 01:06