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"A doctor who helped catch her and bring her to justice has told ITV news."ITV news (see: 00:00-00:05)

When I heard this part of the sentence "...a doctor who helped catch her...." it sounded unusual to me, because the verb "catch" has an active sense.

"A catches B, so B is caught by A". If you don't state who caught the B in the sentence, you should say "B was caught..." This is the rule, so far so good.

As you see, who caught her was not mentioned in the sentence. The doctor is not the person who caught her. The doctor helped the police. So the doctor is the doer of the helping, not the doer of the catching.

So, her getting caught is carried out by someone else who is not mentioned in the sentence, which is why the verb *"catch" remains without a subject, which is why it should be passive, shouldn't it?

The general rule with the passive is that If the doer of an action is not mentioned in a sentence, then the verb (to catch) of the sentence should be in a passive form.

As per the rule, the verb "to catch" either needs "its doer" in the sentence or it should be in a passive form such as "A doctor helped with her getting caught...", doesn't it?

That is what drew my attention in that sentence, but because this is a British TV channel, I can't be sure of my analysis.

So, is it OK to use "to catch" in the active sense whereas it should be in the passive sense, because the "doer of the catching" was not mentioned in the sentence?

Yunus
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  • I think it would have been more correct to say a doctor who helped to catch her. – Kate Bunting Aug 19 '23 at 09:40
  • I don't follow you. "Catch" can occur in both active and passive clauses. The two suggestions that you say are passive are actually active. The only passive in the whole of your question is "She was caught ...". – BillJ Aug 19 '23 at 10:04
  • Does this answer your question? Help to do something or help do something? – FumbleFingers Aug 19 '23 at 10:55
  • @BillJ, I mean "Her getting caught by the police is a passive happening." In other words, "The doctor helped the police to catch her." and "She was caught by the police with the help of a doctor." or "The police was helped by a doctor to catch her.". So, "to catch" can only be used if the catcher is stated in the sentence (active), Bu in the ITV' sentence, who caught her is not clear. Only the helper is clear. The helper is the doctor, but who is the catcher is unknown. So, the verb "to catch" should be used in passive form. – Yunus Aug 19 '23 at 13:17
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    No it shouldn't. It doesn't matter if the person who was helped by the doctor is unnamed. The ITV sentence is perfect. – BillJ Aug 19 '23 at 13:28
  • What's the name of the British ITV show? It looks like an incomplete sentence. It is, isn't it? – Mari-Lou A Aug 19 '23 at 13:33
  • The doctor helped with the process of catching LL. Viewers of the news already know that she was arrested by the police some time ago. – Kate Bunting Aug 19 '23 at 16:33
  • @KateBunting, thanks yes That is what I think now. I think it is because of my native language. In my native language, If you help someone do something, that is ok to have the verb in the active form with which you provided help, because there is a person who is doing it and you help them to do it. But, if "you help do something (without saying who you helped)", the verb with which you said you helped must be always in passive form, because the verb can not have occurred by itself, Maybe I thought it would be the same English, but turned out it is not. – Yunus Aug 20 '23 at 00:56
  • Although the passive can be used to avoid stating the subject, not stating the subject doesn't automatically mean you should use the passive. (Affirming the consequent) – Luke Sawczak Aug 20 '23 at 01:22

2 Answers2

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There is nothing passive about a doctor who helped catch her - nothing at all. It does not mention the subject of "catch", but that does not make it passive.

Help here is a catenative verb: that Wikipedia article specifically gives an example of help being followed by an infinitive with or without "to".

Colin Fine
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  • I checked "help" as a catenative verb. An example on that page. "I helped pack her bags." We understand "I helped her to help her bags." Clearly, the person who is helped and the owner the bags are actually the same person. But, what if I helped someone else (her mom) who actually packed her daughter's bags. I mean "to help" doesn't always include only two sides, but more sides. In this sentence, there are 3 people. 1- the helper, 2- mom (the person who I actually helped), 3-her (the owner of the bags.) In this case the sentence "I helped pack her bags" removes the second person, doesn't it? – Yunus Aug 19 '23 at 14:15
  • The sentence I helped pack her bags says absolutely nothing about who did the actual packing. It might have been the owner; it might have been her husband, or her brother, or her maid, or the staff at the hotel where she was staying. In the absence of any context, it might be expected that it was the owner of the bags, but there is nothing in the words that requires or even implies this. – Colin Fine Aug 19 '23 at 17:29
  • @Thanks, Colin, I did not know that.I think it is because of my native language. In it,, If "you help someone do something", that is OK to keep the verb in the active form with which you provided help, because there is a person who is doing it and you help them to do it. But, if "you help do something (without saying who you helped)", the verb with which you said you helped must be always be kept in the passive form, because the verb can not have occurred by itself, Maybe I thought it would be the same English, but turned out it is not. – Yunus Aug 20 '23 at 01:01
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    @yunus Keep in mind that "help" implies, or at least leaves open, the possibility of cooperative effort in which more than one individual is involved. Just because no single individual has accomplished a task alone, and only one of the individuals involved is addressed in the sentence, does not mean that the participation of that one individual must be put into passive voice construction because the others are not mentioned. – Biblasia Aug 20 '23 at 01:12
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In my judgment there is a difference between

  1. The doctor helped somebody catch her.
  2. The doctor helped catch her.

(1) says that somebody other than the doctor was the main person doing the catching. (2) suggests that the doctor was more directly involved in catching (it is unspecified whether others were also involved).

That explains why the following sounds off:

  • ?The doctor wasn't the one who caught her, but he helped catch her.
    • Better: he helped others catch her; he helped in/with catching her

It is clearer with an event like sleeping that can have only one participant:

  • The doctor helped me sleep better at night.
  • *The doctor helped sleep better at night.
nschneid
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