2

(Before someone told me that he was a vegetarian)

I had not known that he was a vegetarian.

I had never known that he was a vegetarian.

It seems that the first sentence is correct while the second is wrong or doesn't make sense. I have no idea why they are totally different: one is correct, but the other is wrong. Could you please explain why?

Stephen
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    From what source does it 'seem' that the second is wrong? – Michael Harvey Oct 05 '22 at 07:38
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    "I never knew you were a vegetarian" is a valid sentence - a more emphatic way of saying "I didn't know...". – Kate Bunting Oct 05 '22 at 07:50
  • Please read this link https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/i-had-never-known.3953982/ at post 8, where a native speaker said the version with "had never" did not make sense. The version with "had not" worked, they said. – Stephen Oct 05 '22 at 08:02
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    "I never knew that..." is idiomatic, but it's true that "I had never known that..." is not. I don't know why - it's just the way the language is. – Kate Bunting Oct 05 '22 at 08:09
  • Thanks. Is "I had never known that..." unidiomatic or is it wrong grammatically? – Stephen Oct 05 '22 at 08:13
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    @KateBunting - I had never known that Japanese fried rice could be as good as Chinese fried rice. But now after having tasted at least three types of their fried rice, ... (Trip Advisor review of 'Zento Sushi') - 'I had never known that beauty and death could go together.' Joanna Ebenstein runs Brooklyn's Museum of Morbid Anatomy (quoted on Wisconsin Public Radio), 'I had never known that this indiscretion on my part had gotten to be known as far away as England.' From diaries of Thomas Merton, 'arguably the most influential American Catholic author of the twentieth century'. – Michael Harvey Oct 05 '22 at 08:59
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    The quoted 'sources' are a bunch of random people on a forum. I had never known there was such a thing as a toilet museum until I found one in New Delhi. I had never known that chocolate could be disgusting until I tasted a Hershey Bar. – Michael Harvey Oct 05 '22 at 09:58
  • @Michael Harvey Is this sentense valid: "Millions of years had passed and people had not noticed such fuels as oil and gas untill the fire was opened up"? Or should it have been the Past Indefinite instead of the Past Perfect? – Eugene Mar 13 '23 at 20:09
  • @Eugene - there haven't been people for 'millions of years' and I am not sure what 'until the fire was opened up' means. – Michael Harvey Mar 13 '23 at 20:15
  • @Michael Harvey As far as I can figure out it goes about that "Millions of years had passed [since oil and gas had been formed on Earth] and people had not noticed such fuels as oil and gas [after they (people) had appeard on Earth] untill the fire was opened up [invented]". – Eugene Mar 13 '23 at 20:25
  • @Eugene - you should ask a new question, instead of asking in comments like this. – Michael Harvey Mar 13 '23 at 20:40
  • I am afraid of being downvoted. It is a strange practice to have turned out at this site, in point of downvoting. It tolls the right of querying for the learners which makes the site nonsensical for them. – Eugene Mar 13 '23 at 21:08
  • We repeat this over and over again here: The past perfect assumes something that preceded it in the simple past, even it not stated. For example: I had never known that he was a vegetarian. [until his sister told me]. In other words, BEFORE she told me, I didn't know. – Lambie Nov 09 '23 at 18:14
  • Does this answer your question? Past tense vs past perfect – Lambie Nov 09 '23 at 18:19

1 Answers1

-1

Instead of this:

I had not known that he was a vegetarian.

Use this:

I didn't know he was a vegetarian.

And instead of this:

I had never known that he was a vegetarian.

Use this:

I never knew he was a vegetarian.

swmcdonnell
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