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It makes no sense to me. Dick sounds absolutely nothing like Richard. Other English nicknames confuse me as well. Bob for Robert, Bill for William, Jim for James, though they are still a bit closer to their original than the whole Dick-Richard of it all.

Edit: as someone mentioned in the comments, "Jack" as a nickname for "John" is another interesting one.

AndreKR
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Hefe
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    Bob is a nickname for Robert. Bill comes from William. Probably both involve rhyming slang as in the answer. – BillOnne Sep 15 '22 at 03:22
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    Dick is short for the English, Scottish, Welsh, Australian, New Zealand, South African, Irish, Canadian name Richard as well. – Michael Harvey Sep 15 '22 at 06:27
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    Wait til you get to Jack… which is 'short' for John. Nope, I've never been able to figure that one out either. – DoneWithThis. Sep 15 '22 at 06:41
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    As Michael indicates, these are names from the English language, not specifically American. The nickname for James used to be Jem (similar to the Scottish version Jamie, which Scots often pronounce 'Jemmy'), and it somehow evolved into Jim over a couple of centuries. – Kate Bunting Sep 15 '22 at 07:37
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    @gonefishin'again. - Jack is thought to come from Jankin, a mediaeval nickname for John. Apparently there were a lot of this kind of nickname in the Middle Ages, which is where surnames like Wilkins, Jenkinson etc come from. – Kate Bunting Sep 15 '22 at 07:43
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    Harry is "short" for Henry (according to Prince Harry/Henry Windsor at least). – Tom V Sep 15 '22 at 12:05
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    @gonefishin'again. What you have to remember about names like "James" and "John" is that they originated in other languages (in this case, Hebrew), and were passed into English via intermediary languages causing morphological drift. So, "John" comes from the Latin "Iohannes" and Greek "Ioannis", from the Hebrew "Yochanan". Hopefully you can see how the short form "Yoch" could similarly become "Jack"? – Chronocidal Sep 15 '22 at 13:42
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    And "Peggy" is a nickname for "Margaret". They are even crazier examples but I forget them right now. – RBarryYoung Sep 15 '22 at 14:06
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    And in Russian, "Sasha" is a nickname for "Alexander". And I'm sure there are other examples from other languages as well. This is not specific to English. Shortened versions do not necessarily have to sound like the original. – Esther Sep 15 '22 at 14:09
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    @RBarryYoung I think that's from Margaret -> Meg -> Peg – Barmar Sep 15 '22 at 14:24
  • @Chronocidal That also explains why Jacques is the French cognate for John. – Barmar Sep 15 '22 at 14:25
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    @Barmar: Isn't John Jean in French, and Jacques is James? – psmears Sep 15 '22 at 14:47
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    @psmears That's what I get for not keeping up with my HS French :) – Barmar Sep 15 '22 at 15:09
  • Charlie is short for Charles, yet has the same number of letters (I think I first read that in Watchmen) – jeremyt Sep 15 '22 at 15:28
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    @jeremyt- Obviously Charlie isn't short for Charles. it's a nickname (sometimes called a pet name). – Kate Bunting Sep 15 '22 at 15:58
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    @jeremyt: it's a common misconception that nicknames must be shorter than the full name. In reality, a nickname is simply one that implies familiarity, and it can totally be longer than the full name. The related concept of diminutive is a name/nickname that implies the bearer is younger/cuter than the speaker. – Martha Sep 15 '22 at 16:01
  • @Esther indeed there are. In Spanish Francisco is shortened/nicknamed Paco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paco – mdewey Sep 15 '22 at 16:25
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    As @KateBunting and Martha just said, there has been unseemly misuse of "short" by non-learners in this thread. – Fattie Sep 15 '22 at 18:01
  • The Wikipedia entry for 'Dick' mentions, and links to rhyming slang in the Middle Ages, but the derivative doesn't rhyme. For example 'barnet' does not rhyme with 'hair' but the full "Barnet Fair" does. So how is 'Dick' rhyming slang for 'Richard', and 'Bob' for 'Robert'? Such rhyming slang did not exist until the 19th C. – Weather Vane Sep 15 '22 at 18:21
  • in Polish: Aleksandra → Ola, Jakub → Kuba, Jerzy → Jurek. – foerno Sep 15 '22 at 18:22
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    @psmears: I'm from Montreal originally. I've never heard Jacques for John. Jacques is the equivalent to James (Quebec is traditionally very Catholic, and name translation is done via the names of saints). Example, the cathedral in downtown Montreal has several names, one of which is St-Jacques le majeur (in English: St. James the Great: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_the_Great). I was astounded when I learned that John F. Kennedy was called "Jack" informally. – Flydog57 Sep 15 '22 at 18:24
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    Whoops, sorry. Didn't realize Dick was used all over the world in English-speaking places. – Hefe Sep 15 '22 at 18:25
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    @Flydog57 you have missed my point. The derivative in rhyming slang does not rhyme. It drops the part of the phrase that rhymes (for obfuscation). The Wikipedia article about 'Rick' mentions the Middle Ages but links to rhyming slang that did not exist until 19th C. – Weather Vane Sep 15 '22 at 18:27
  • @Flydog57: Yes, isn't that the same as I said in my comment? – psmears Sep 15 '22 at 20:19
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    @WeatherVane That specific type of rhyming slang. which is more recent than the nickname? I fail to see how you could even consider it relevant. By contrast with Cockney Rhyming Slang, *Irish* Rhyming slang does not omit the rhyme (e.g. "cream-crackered"→"knackered" / "brown-bread"→"dead" / "tea-leaf"→"thief") Rhyming and slang are concepts several thousand years old, why would you assume they only came about in the 19th century? – Chronocidal Sep 15 '22 at 20:40
  • @Chronocidal yes, rhyme and slang are both very old, but the Wikipidia page being cited links to rhyming slang, which isn't. – Weather Vane Sep 15 '22 at 20:47
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    @WeatherVane So, what is a slang that rhymes, if it's not a rhyming slang? The issue here seems to be the poor quality of the "Rhyming Slang" article on Wikipedia (which you appear to be taking as Gospel Truth), and its attempt to attest a generic phenomena name to a specific example of said phenomena. If the articles in question had not included a Hyperlink to the similarly-named page (or if the page were correctly created as a Disambiguation page, of which Cockney Rhyming Slang was just one article linked), would you still be taking umbrage? – Chronocidal Sep 15 '22 at 20:52
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    Interesting [English.se] usage question. No real ELL aspect here... – James K Sep 15 '22 at 21:04
  • This isn't exclusive of english; in (latin american-?) spanish there are examples like "Memo" for "Guillermo", "Lalo" for "Eduardo", but for me the biggest "offender" is "Pepe" as short for "José" – Josh Part Sep 15 '22 at 21:07
  • @gonefishin'again. I had a pretty big "aha" experience when I learned why Seán McLoughlin calls his Youtube channel "Jacksepticeye". Seán => Irish John => Jack – QBrute Sep 15 '22 at 21:50
  • Also see https://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/137436/is-there-any-rule-for-shortening-of-names-of-people/137488#137488 – Luke Sawczak Sep 16 '22 at 13:34
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    Did "dick" have a sexual definition before or after it became a name? If it came before, then why would "dick" every be a nickname? If it came after, why would a name ever get a sexual meaning? – Some Guy Sep 16 '22 at 17:38
  • @SomeGuy great question. I was wondering the same. – Hefe Sep 16 '22 at 17:43
  • @SomeGuy No, the nickname came first. The slang for penis is first attested in 1891. https://www.etymonline.com/word/dick – called2voyage Sep 16 '22 at 19:30
  • @SomeGuy If I had to guess, the slang for penis probably came from the nickname, in the same way that "Johnson" is sometimes used as slang for penis. It's just referring to the organ by a common man's name. – called2voyage Sep 16 '22 at 19:32
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    @JoshPart "Pepe" sounds like the Italian "Giuseppe", for which we use the nickname "Peppe" (as well as many others, e.g., "Pino") – gboffi Sep 16 '22 at 20:54
  • Your Question is wholly reasonable but sadly, any useful Answer is lost in the mists of time. 'Dick' for 'Richard' is explained by tradition, not detail or logic. Who doubts that, Ask any search engine. – Robbie Goodwin Sep 16 '22 at 21:46
  • Dutch has "Pim", a nickname for "Wim", short for "Willem", the Dutch form of "William". – Robert Furber Sep 17 '22 at 00:27
  • Sometimes Rob for Robin as well. – Pryftan Sep 17 '22 at 16:12
  • @gboffi I also read somewhere sometime ago that "Pepe" (or something that sound alike) was a (I assume jewish) slang for "dad/father" during the period Jesus lived, and as "Jose" comes from "Joseph" that's why "Pepe" was adopted as a nickname for it. But ir coming from "Giuseppe" also makes sense. – Josh Part Sep 19 '22 at 16:17

5 Answers5

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Dick for Richard, Bob for Robert, Bill for William, and more

It originates from the 12–13th centuries (Middle English), in a time where a lot of people had the same names. Richard was also spelled Rickard, which obviously shortens to Rick (a nickname we still use today). From there, rhyming forms were created, getting us Dick. It also created Hick, which is a nickname that isn't in use today, but it's the origin of the word hick, in addition to last (family) names such as Hickson which are still in use.

The book Christian Names in Local and Family History expands further on this:

We can see immediately how this might give rise to Roberts and Robertson and how the pet form would lead to Robb(s) and Robson and the diminutives to Robbins, Robinson and Robbie. Rhyming forms would produce Dobbs, Dobbin, Dobbinson, Hobbs, Hobson, Hopkins and Hopkinson. Similarly the pet form 'Dodge' for Roger gave rise directly to the surnames Dodge and Dodgson, Hodge and Hodgson, and the diminutives produced Hodgett, Hodgkin and Hodgkinson. Such developments were not confined to the common names nor indeed to male names, and the process is one that is familiar to anybody working on early records. The purpose here though is simply to remind those who are not familiar with such practices what can lie behind latinised forms such as 'Robertus' and 'Ricardus'.

Peg for Margaret

This was created the same way (rhyming) as the other names in this group, but with more intermediary steps. From the Dictionary of Medieval Names from European Sources:

Margaret is the radiconym; take it and cut the name down to the first syllable, and you get Marg. In certain dialects, that r is going to be very lightly pronounced, giving us Mag. Magge (pronounced with two syllables) can be found in England as early as 1200, and not much later after that, you can find that hypocoristic form augmented with a diminutive suffix: Magota 1208 (this is a Latin form and would’ve been Magot in the vernacular). (We’ll give you three guesses as to why this name is no longer popular today….). By the end of the century, there are examples of the -a- shifting to -e-, e.g., Megge 1254, 1275, 1279, etc. You can also see it in Megota 1309 (also Latinized).

Jack for John

Even scholars don't agree on the exact origin!

It's likely one of these:

  • From (Old) French Jacques
  • From Jackin, a diminutive of Jan (itself a mere vowel away from John)
  • From Picard-Flemish *Janke in the same way that Han became Hank(in), which became Hake. (The asterisk means it's a reconstructed form not recorded in written texts.)

Summarized from The Kinship of Jack: I, Pet-Forms of Middle English Personal Names with the Suffixes -kin, -ke, -man and -cot.

Jim for James

Middle English had James, Jame, and Gemme. From there it's a simple vowel change to get to Jim.

Laurel
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    The best answer, avoiding the nonsense being traded about rhyming slang. – Weather Vane Sep 15 '22 at 18:45
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    The bit about rhyming slang is a) certainly present in this answer ("From there, rhyming forms were created, getting us Dick.") and b) not nonsense (how else do you get from "Rick" to "Dick", if not by rhyming? Is the derivation of a nickname by rhyming somehow not inherently a slang usage?) The answer doesn't explicitly state that "Peg" rhymes with "Meg", but I should think it doesn't need pointing out. – Karl Knechtel Sep 17 '22 at 15:58
  • @WeatherVane Except that .. sometimes this does happen from rhyming slang. No examples come to my mind atm but I know I've seen it even in dictionaries for some names. So it's not nonsense at all. And as Karl put it rhyming is referred to in the answer as well. – Pryftan Sep 17 '22 at 16:15
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    @KarlKnechtel It's not "rhyming slang" (because as I said elsewhere, nicknames aren't slang). Additionally, poetry isn't "rhyming slang" and neither is reduplication, even though they both frequently rhyme. Scholars seem to only use the term "rhyming slang" to refer to expressions like "a Britney" (from "Britney Spears") meaning "a beer". – Laurel Sep 17 '22 at 16:55
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The wikipedia entry for Dick (nickname) says it likely originated via rhyming slang for Rick, which is another nickname for Richard.

Similar answers apply to your other examples. The answer now is that they are idiomatic and traditional, even if they don't make much sense.

a101010
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    Well someone should edit the Wikipedia entry, because the rhyming slang they link to did not exist in the Middle Ages they talk about. It's nonsense. – Weather Vane Sep 15 '22 at 18:41
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    @WeatherVane remember wikipedia is editable by anyone. However you would need to have corroborative evidence. Perhaps add notes on their "talk" page for the article ? – Criggie Sep 15 '22 at 19:57
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    @WeatherVane "Cockney Rhyming Slang", which that article seems to primarily focus on, to the exclusion of other forms (presumably part of why it has so many tags for low-quality and questionable-providence) did not exist in the middle ages, true. However, Geoffery Chaucer did, and he makes frequent use of rhymes and slang for euphemisms and nicknames in his works. – Chronocidal Sep 15 '22 at 20:47
  • @Chronocidal yes, rhyme and slang are both very old, but the Wikipidia page being cited links to a specific form of rhyming slang which isn't. – Weather Vane Sep 15 '22 at 20:48
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    @WeatherVane No, the cited page links to a page about Rhyming Slang, which in turn attempts to talk entirely about a specific form of Rhyming Slang while discounting or downplaying the existence of other forms. If you check the history of the page in question, earlier forms were far more clear about that, but (over time) it has been vandalised into the current state that treats Cockney as King and Original, to the exclusion of all others — for example, insisting on a definition that excludes Irish Rhyming Slang from being a Rhyming Slang. Despite, you know, being slang that rhymes. – Chronocidal Sep 15 '22 at 20:57
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    @Chronocidal so you do agree that Wikipedia needs editing? Thank you. – Weather Vane Sep 15 '22 at 21:20
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    How does this answer with no references, except an allusion to wikipedia, have so many votes? – spacetyper Sep 16 '22 at 06:57
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    @Chronocidal Nicknames aren't slang, so scholars don't call nicknames that rhyme "rhyming slang". The fact that other types of rhyming slang are excluded from the Wikipedia article is unfortunate (to say the least!) but not germane here. – Laurel Sep 16 '22 at 12:27
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    @WeatherVane It's not nonsense. I've no idea where you get that idea but it's not. Also some rhyming slang that has names (Adam and Eve for example but shortened to Adam for 'to leave') mean different things. Another one is Rosy Lee for tea. Names and rhyming slang do go together. ... and whether or not the idea existed or not does not mean that it doesn't apply to names. Now maybe it doesn't answer the specific examples in the question but it's still not nonsense. – Pryftan Sep 17 '22 at 16:20
  • Another thing to consider though. Let's say it isn't the original source. Okay. That's fine. But it doesn't mean that it isn't later used that way. Besides that even if the concept of rhyming slang did not exist by name yet that doesn't mean that it wasn't done by some. It's unfortunately unfalsifiable which makes your claim just as unprovable as mine - until there is an actual example found we simply cannot know for certain. – Pryftan Sep 17 '22 at 16:32
  • @Pryftan the nonsense is in the Wikipedia page for Dick cited, which claims that the derivation originated in the Middle Ages and links to a form of rhyming slang that did not come about until several centuries later. – Weather Vane Sep 17 '22 at 16:32
  • @Pryftan and another reason it's nonsense is because that form of rhyming slang would not produce 'Dick' from 'Richard', but perhaps 'Fever' as in 'Fever pitch', which rhymes with 'Rich'. I've explained all that before. – Weather Vane Sep 17 '22 at 17:08
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    Wikipedia is not a source... – Mast Sep 17 '22 at 20:37
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‘Dick’ evolved via rhyming slang out of ‘Rick’, which is a reasonably standard clip form of ‘Richard’ (and that clipping down to ‘Rick’ makes a lot of sense if you consider the typical English approximations of the German pronunciation of ‘Richard’, or how ‘ch’ is typically pronounced in other languages of the British Isles).

‘Bob’ is a similar case of rhyming slang evolved out of ‘Rob’ which is in turn a clip form of ‘Robert’. Usage of ‘Bob’ for ‘Bill’ is not something I’ve personally heard, but I could easily see it as an alliterative substitution that just happened to stick in some micro-dialect.

‘Bill’ itself is yet another case of rhyming slang evolved out of ‘Will’ which is in turn a clip form of ‘William’ (or ‘Willard’).

‘Jim’ is an Anglicization of the Scottish ‘Jem’, which is an old clip form of ‘James’.

At this point, all of them are established forms in English, and that unfortunately means they don’t have to make sense. Etymology of names is often confusing in general (consider for example that John, Sean, and Evan are all different forms of the same name that arrived in the English language via different routes), and nicknames just make it worse.

Austin Hemmelgarn
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    To John, Sean, and Evan, you can add also Hank, which exists as a proper name as a shortening of the archaic name Hankin, another reflex of John. Hank is also a nickname for Henry through a separate etymology. – A. R. Sep 15 '22 at 13:45
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    No, it did not. The rhyming slang you linked did not exist until 19th century, and rhyming slang does not rhyme with the original word. That is its point. – Weather Vane Sep 15 '22 at 18:33
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    Indeed, if one reads the Wikipedia article linked, it's easy to notice that rhyming slang has nothing to do with the rhyming forms of the short names. – Ruslan Sep 15 '22 at 19:00
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    “Jem” might be Scots, but it is not Scots Gaelic. The Gaelic form of “James” is “Seumas”, pronounced like Irish “Séamas” or anglicized “Shamus”. There are no sensible phonological mechanisms for this to give rise to a short form of “Jem”. However, there are such processes to derive “Jem” from “James”. – Eiríkr Útlendi Sep 15 '22 at 19:16
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    Hmm, the German pronounciation of "Richard" doesn't start with "Rick". (At least current German, not sure about the German centuries ago.) – Paŭlo Ebermann Sep 16 '22 at 01:32
  • This makes sense, but doesn't explain Jack -> John. It does explain Meg -> Peg -> Peggy if you can accept Margaret -> Meg. – Roddy of the Frozen Peas Sep 16 '22 at 03:52
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    @RoddyoftheFrozenPeas - As I mentioned in an earlier comment, Jack is thought to come from the mediaeval nickname Jankin (John > Jan with the diminutive -kin added). – Kate Bunting Sep 16 '22 at 08:30
  • @PaŭloEbermann OTOH English people do tend to pronounce all fricatives spelt ch as the ck in Rick, e.g. Scottish loch and Welsh bach (when borrowed into Welsh English) as lock and back - and "Rickard" exists as a name, filling in the gap – Chris H Sep 16 '22 at 10:47
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    @WeatherVane Wikipedia only really covers Cockney Rhyming Slang, but other forms have existed historically, and even Cockney Rhyming Slang does rhyme in full form (for example ‘sausage and mash’ for ‘cash’), it’s just that full forms are almost never used in everyday speech. – Austin Hemmelgarn Sep 16 '22 at 11:26
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    @EiríkrÚtlendi Noted, and corrected in the answer. – Austin Hemmelgarn Sep 16 '22 at 11:28
  • @PaŭloEbermann Quite so, though my intent was more the typical English mispronunciation of the German form of ‘Richard’ (which generally comes out something like ‘Reek hard’). I’ve updated the answer to make this clearer. – Austin Hemmelgarn Sep 16 '22 at 11:29
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Rather than rhyming slang, which is a fairly intellectual application of euphemism (fart, raspberry tart, raspberry), I believe rhyming nicknames arise from older siblings who haven't quite learned to talk. It's a common phenomenon. For example, the name "Buzzy" sometimes derives from "brother" (Buzz Aldrin, Curtis "Buzzy" Roosevelt).

Remember that the "r" in "Richard" would have been pronounced with the tip of the tongue several centuries ago, and a child learning to talk could easily mutate an apical alveolar /r/ sound into /d/.

phoog
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  • "older siblings who haven't quite learned to talk" – did you mean "younger", here? – V2Blast Sep 16 '22 at 14:58
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    @V2Blast No, younger siblings don't generally get to "rename" their elder siblings that way — they would object. Toddler name babies this way. – Tim Grant Sep 16 '22 at 17:38
  • @TimGrant: Ah, I see what you mean. I was confused by the combination of "older siblings" with "haven't quite learned to talk". That makes more sense, I guess. – V2Blast Sep 16 '22 at 17:46
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    @V2Blast for example, my 2-year old niece had difficulty pronouncing her newborn brother's given name, leading to his present nickname. – phoog Sep 16 '22 at 18:34
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    I don't have any evidence for this but I've always thought that names like Dick and Bob are from baby-talk because not all toddlers, when they learn to speak, cannot pronounce the R sound. So Rick becomes Dick and Rob becomes Bob. – cup Sep 17 '22 at 23:19
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Are there no parents on this thread? My daughter Laura was "Laura-Paura", Pamela was, sometimes, "Pamela-Bamela", sometimes I just called her "Panama". "Anna" to "Anna Banana" is common. Don't tell me that rhyming nicknames aren't a thing! Those who distinguish this from rhyming slang are correct, though. Rhyming slang is when you construct a non-rhyming slang synonym from a rhyming intermediate phrase. If I had called Anna "Dolly" because Anna-Banana -> Dole Bananas -> Dole -> Dolly, that would have been more like rhyming slang.