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For example, the famous tweet quoting Forsyth,

[A]djectives in English absolutely have to be in this order: opinion-size-age-shape-colour-origin-material-purpose Noun. So you can have a lovely little old rectangular green French silver whittling knife. But if you mess with that word order in the slightest you’ll sound like a maniac. It’s an odd thing that every English speaker uses that list, but almost none of us could write it out. And as size comes before colour, green great dragons can’t exist.

Are there other unspoken rules similar to this, that are often hard to explain or put into words because they just "feel right"?

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    Rule #1: There are no rules! – Hot Licks Apr 29 '22 at 20:57
  • Were I to encounter green great dragons in a story I'd be surprised and pleased. I'd know that the author reversed the expected order to make me notice these particular dragons, so not see them as simply part of the scenery. Moreover, the plot might turn on the distinction between green great dragons and blue great dragons. – Ethan Bolker Apr 30 '22 at 02:02
  • I'm a "native speaker", and though I've never seen the rule written down in that way, I would have to agee that that order is roughly idiomatic. Though I would see little wrong with "a green rectangular handkerchief". – WS2 Oct 07 '22 at 08:00
  • @HotLicks I disagree. They may be unwritten, but there are rules. One would be unlikely to find a "whittling silver French green rectangular old little knife". – WS2 Oct 09 '22 at 20:25
  • @WS2 - Unlikely, but it's not prohibited. – Hot Licks Oct 09 '22 at 23:09
  • @HotLicks We are talking about "grammatical rules" - fortunately they are not enforced with fines and imprisonment. – WS2 Oct 10 '22 at 07:08

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Native speakers understand when to use except and when to use except for. But when I was trying to figure out the rules a few years ago, the majority of explanations on the Internet were wrong.

If except (for) is followed by a noun, the rule is: you can use except when it's after an expression containing a word like whole, entire, all, every, none, and so on. Otherwise, you should use except for. (And except for is grammatical in all cases.)

All the rooms except the kitchen have been cleaned.
Except for the kitchen, all the rooms have been cleaned.
They cleaned the house, except for the kitchen.
Everybody except me has a hippopotamus.
None of the students except John remembered to bring their hamster to class.

Peter Shor
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It's rather that learners of English are given general rules for things that native speakers often don't know off the tops of their heads if asked, like adjective order. These are usually "rules" that have been internalized very early before formal learning in school.

Another example is the idiomatic use of high vs. tall (high clouds and a tall building). IMO, unless a native speaker has taught ESL, they might have trouble giving a general rule if asked on the spot--they've probably never even thought about it. The same holds for many "rules" students of English may benefit from. Of course there are exceptions, but there is some rhyme and reason.

DjinTonic
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  • In general I agree with you. But high vs. tall is relatively easy to understand. High is disconnected from where you are - clouds, ceiling, bar (in a high jump, and metaphorically). Tall is connected to where you start measuring - building, basketball player, story. – Ethan Bolker Apr 30 '22 at 01:07
  • @EthanBolker Of course, but most native speakers don't remember ever being taught a rule. And re adjective order, native speakers don't need to (but could) write out the complete rule, because the rules have been fully internalized for reasonably long sets of adjective, hence no green, great dragons. "Sounds right/wrong" is the output from a "hidden" rule that we apply without looking into the "black box," so to speak. This is unlike most spelling rules, like "I before E..." that come later and remain with us as rules we can verbalize. – DjinTonic Apr 30 '22 at 01:20
  • Actually, I do have a bit of quibble with the "green great dragon" example. Mostly because "great dragon" would be a perfectly fine noun phrase, distinguishing some particular type of dragon from others. – SoronelHaetir Apr 30 '22 at 05:24
  • @SoronelHaetir Yes, you can front an adjective to put focus on it, but you also change the stress if spoken and might use italics in writing. Both position and emphasis serve to mark it as non-standard order. – DjinTonic Apr 30 '22 at 10:23
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Native speakers also do not need to be taught about articles—-a, an, and the—when to use which one or none at all.

Xanne
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