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How do you think names that have the plural "s" should be pronounced when they get the apostrophe? I researched this on the web and I couldn't find any very reliable results. For example, how should these three words be pronounced?

  • The Beatles'

  • Red Hot Chili Peppers'

  • Mr. Jingles'

Context: In case you don't know, The Beatles are a band, Red Hot Chili Peppers are also a band. "Jingles" is a last name that includes the plural "s". It is not a band name. I know that normally, when a plural word gets the apostrophe, you don't make a second /ɪs/ or /ɪz/ sound. For example, you don't say, /ɡɑɪzɪz/ when you say "guys' ". But I think we might pronounce another /ɪs/ or /ɪz/ when we say the words I gave because names like "The Beatles" represent one singular band while they also represent the people in the band. When you say "Mr. Jingles" also it represents one person. So I thought it may be correct to pronounce the example words I gave as, "The Beatles + /ɪz/", "Red Hot Chili Peppers + /ɪz/", "Jingles + /ɪz/".

Fire and Ice
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1 Answers1

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I would pronounce them with a silent possessive, i.e. not adding the /ɪz/, in the manner of the answer linked by FumbleFingers.

randomhead
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  • Are you *sure* Lynne Truss said that? Can you provide a verification link? I thought she knew what she was talking about, but that "modern / ancient name" distinction sounds like total garbage to me. – FumbleFingers May 07 '21 at 14:44
  • *James* (and to perhaps a lesser extent *Charles) are pretty "ancient" names. And it's effectively a stylistic choice whether to write/enunciate possessive s* with them. All that matters is the orthography should match the pronunciation (but the possessive apostrophe itself is always written, even though it's not enunciated). – FumbleFingers May 07 '21 at 14:50
  • @Fumble I actually had it backwards, but she did make the distinction, while also saying "these are matters of style and preference." And, following Fowler's, she described biblical names as "modern." https://i.stack.imgur.com/mv2Qs.png (An interesting typo there, I definitely recall reading "St James's Square" in my print copy.) – randomhead May 07 '21 at 15:14
  • I can't follow your first link there, but does the png link definitely reflect Truss's own text? I don't understand an exception is always* made for Jesus* - as I've pointed out repeatedly, that one is *optional. If you write [Jesus' disciples](https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=%22jesus%27+disciples%22), you shouldn't enunciate the possessive 's'. But it's perfectly acceptable to make the stylistic choice to write [Jesus's disciples](https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=%22jesus%27s+disciples%22), in which case you should also* enunciate the 's'. – FumbleFingers May 07 '21 at 15:55
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    @FumbleFingers I agree with you that the orthography should match the pronunciation: either we both write and pronounce the extra "s" (as is traditional, except with a small number of names) or we write a final apostrophe sans "s" and don't pronounce an extra "s". However, surprisingly enough, there are some people (mainly in the US) who believe in omitting the extra "s" from the spelling and yet pronouncing it. An answer at https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/565500/do-i-say-chriss-being-annoying-or-do-contractions-not-work-in-this-scenario/565519 advocates this strange system. – rjpond May 07 '21 at 16:13
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    ALSO - I've just noticed something that would make me instantly reject anything relating to what that png claims. It gives the specific example St Jame's Square, which is *rubbish!* I can't believe anyone would have been so daft as to deliberately write that, but in a context specifically dealing with orthographic subtleties, it beggars belief that they couldn't properly proofread that one! – FumbleFingers May 07 '21 at 16:14
  • @rjpond: I'd be interested to know if you can find anyone (not just a "recognised authority") who would attempt to actually defend the idea of pronouncing the 's' but not writing it (as opposed to doing this out of carelessness). I have no problem with consistency down either path, and I can almost get my head around the idea that you might deliberately write the 's' but not pronounce it. But the "pronounce but don't write" permutation just sounds potty to me! – FumbleFingers May 07 '21 at 16:19
  • @Fumble yes, the screenshot is of the text at the link—it definitely is from Lynne Truss. St Jame's Square is assuredly a typo, as I mentioned; I do remember it being St James's Square in my book. – randomhead May 07 '21 at 16:24
  • @randomhead: The majority of writers include the optional 's'. But as that link shows, plenty of people don't write it. Of course, we've no way of knowing for sure how many people don't speak as they write, but obviously there's flexibility so far as writing goes. – FumbleFingers May 07 '21 at 17:09