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First of all, "threepenny" is a British word meaning "costing or worth three pence". It's quite an uncommon word. If you haven't heard it before, I'm pretty sure you would pronounce it the way "three" and "penny" are pronounced separately, that is, THREE.PENNY or in IPA */ˈθriːpɛni/.

Instinctively, the word is made up of three and penny. But here is a surprise (if you haven't come across it before): "threepenny" is pronounced as THREP.NI, IPA: /ˈθrɛp(ə)ni/ at least in British English.

Why is this so? I know English spelling and pronunciation don't go hand in hand but is there any reason "threepenny" is pronounced that way? It's kind of surprising.

Would love to know about it.

Edit: I really apologize for writing do instead of don't. It is very embarrassing.

Void
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  • Worth a read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threepence_(British_coin) – jwpfox Nov 28 '20 at 11:39
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    I doubt any Brit younger than 45 would even remember its existence nor its value, and you certainly never hear it spoken. Where did you come across this term? – Mari-Lou A Nov 28 '20 at 12:24
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    https://www.lexico.com/definition/threepenny to hear the pronunciation – Mari-Lou A Nov 28 '20 at 12:26
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    @Mari-Lou and a different pronunciation under thruppence. – Weather Vane Nov 28 '20 at 12:28
  • @WeatherVane Yes, but what many call the coin "thruppence" is also written "thruppence", and its pronunciation makes a lot of sense whereas threepenny is a compound word of two distinct words three and penny. My idea is that "threp" is just a joining of three and the first letter in "p"enny. – Mari-Lou A Nov 28 '20 at 12:36
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    I was born in 1980 England and thrupenny was a term I've only heard used in a historical context (the thrupenny bit went out of circulation in 1970). It was common when I was younger to call a 2p coin, or just the price 2p, tuppence, but far less so now. In England its most usual to say "2p" or "3p". – John Davis Nov 28 '20 at 20:27
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    Because the people poor enough to use them were ill-bred peasants who don't speak proper like what we does. – Richard Nov 28 '20 at 23:53
  • @Mari-Lou A: A three pence coin was around in one form or another since about 1550 (Google gives a couple of dates a few years apart). There were a lot of books (and plays, poems, essays, &c) written during those years. If one reads (in English, anyway), it would be pretty hard not to have seen mention of the thruppence, or the farthing, ha'penny, tuppence, sixpence, bob (AKA shilling), guinea, half crown, and all the other interesting varieties of British coinage. E.g. in Dickens' "A Christmas Carol", Bob Cratchit earns thruppence an hour working for Scrooge. – jamesqf Nov 29 '20 at 02:48
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    FWIW, Merriam Webster's pronunciation includes "US also [ˈθriː.pɛni]", which reflects my experience as an American. I will probably continue to pronounce the Brecht work as if it were spelled "The Three Penny Opera". (I put the pronunciation in brackets because Webster uses a different system.) – Mark Foskey Nov 29 '20 at 03:05
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    Thrupny (not even an E as in Thrup*E*nny ). There is simply no other way to pronounce it – Mawg says reinstate Monica Nov 29 '20 at 18:30
  • Then please demonstrate. Btw, where were you pre 15th February, 1971? – Mawg says reinstate Monica Nov 29 '20 at 21:20
  • @Void Yes, I meant "don't". How could that possibly happen? It is very embarrassing that I wrote "do". OMG –  Nov 30 '20 at 10:03
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    @MawgsaysreinstateMonica yup (yep?) - I've always heard it pronounced "thrupny". I'm based in southern UK, but with historic family links 'oop north. – Alnitak Nov 30 '20 at 10:49
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    Lolx!! As soon as I read "thrupny", I though "'oop north." :-) – Mawg says reinstate Monica Nov 30 '20 at 14:15
  • In Ireland it was pronounced thruppence – copper.hat Dec 01 '20 at 00:37
  • Did somebody tell you English is logical? It isn't. (If you have time and interest, try Japanese, now that's satisfyingly logical.) – RedSonja Dec 01 '20 at 07:45
  • Speaking as someone from the south-east of England, and born slightly before decimalization, I can confirm I've always heard it pronounced (and pronounced it myself) as "thrup'ny", and can say that the word lives on as a part of the rhyming slang expression "thrup'ny bits" - I'll leave the meaning unstated. – Spratty Dec 01 '20 at 09:06
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    And a chance to add a reference from the late, great Terry Pratchett (with Neil Gaimen, from Good Omens):

    "Two farthings = One Ha'penny. Two ha'pennies = One Penny. Three pennies = A Thrupenny Bit. Two Thrupences = A Sixpence. Two Sixpences = One Shilling, or Bob. Two Bob = A Florin. One Florin and One Sixpence = Half a Crown. Four Half Crowns = Ten Bob Note. Two Ten Bob Notes = One Pound (or 240 pennies). Once Pound and One Shilling = One Guinea.

    The British resisted decimalized currency for a long time because they thought it was too complicated."

     – Spratty Dec 01 '20 at 09:10

3 Answers3

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;

I don't know how it was pronounced in the past, but it must have been /ˈθriː.pɛ.ni/ (THREE.PE.NI) at some point, which is a three-syllable word having a 'tense' vowel in its first syllable, meaning it's a prime candidate for Trisyllabic Laxing. It's a process whereby a long vowel/diphthong is shortened if two or more syllables follow:

  • */ˈθriː.pɛ.ni/ → /ˈθrɛ.pɛ.ni/ [because we know that /iː/ becomes /ɛ/ when syllables follow]

After that, the vowel /ɛ/ in the second syllable became /ə/ and syncopated (dropped) eventually so we got /ˈθrɛp.ni/.

(I have expounded on Trisyllabic Laxing in this answer to a question asking "Why are “south” and “southern” pronounced with different vowels?", but I'll just discuss it briefly here.)

Trisyllabic Laxing

Trisyllabic Laxing a process whereby a tense vowel (long vowel or a diphthong) is laxed (shortened) if two (or more) syllables follow. As we add syllables to the base of a word in English, we tend to reduce the length of the vowel in the base. If a syllable having tense vowel is followed by two or more syllables, the tense vowel often becomes lax.

At one point, this rule applied to all relevant cases; it was therefore purely a phonological rule, a constraint upon what was pronounceable in English. Later on, it ceased to be a part of English phonology, however, its remnants are still highly visible in Modern English.

Examples:

  • insane /ɪnˈseɪn/ → insanity /ɪnˈsæn.ə.ti/
  • serene /səˈriːn/ → serenity /səˈrɛ.nə.ti/
  • divine /dɪˈvaɪn/ → divinity /dɪˈvɪ.nə.ti/

There was a fairly regular pattern of the short and long vowels in corresponding pairs.

Relationship between [iː] and [ɛ]

The FLEECE vowel [iː] has a systematic relationship with the DRESS vowel [ɛ]. The vowel [iː] in the base often shortened to [ɛ] as syllables were added to the base of a word.

This relationship is reflected in serene - serenity and brief - brevity, therefore you see the vowel [iː] in serene and brief, but [ɛ] in serenity and brevity because the tense vowel is followed by two (or more) syllables now.

Laxing of the vowel in the first syllable of threepenny

The same thing happened to threepenny:

  • /ˈθriː.pɛ.ni/ → /ˈθrɛ.pɛ.ni/

the tense vowel [iː] was followed by two syllables, therefore it got shortened to [ɛ] (by Trisyllabic Laxing rule).

By contrast, the tense vowel in threefold didn't get laxed because it has always been disyllabic (two-syllable) word, and for Trisyllabic Laxing to take place, we need at least three syllables.

  • Threefold → /ˈθriːfəʊld/, not */ˈθrɛfəʊld/

Weakening of the vowel in the second syllable of threepenny

OK, the first syllable is clear now, but what about the second syllable? Why is the vowel in the second syllable further reduced (/ˈθrɛp(ə)ni/)?

It's because the second syllable has no primary stress. And as we know, unstressed syllables often get reduced to schwa hence,

  • /ˈθrɛ.pɛ.ni/ → /ˈθrɛpəni/.

Most people further reduce it to /ˈθrɛp.ni/ because there's a tendency to drop the unstressed vowel when it immediately follows a stressed syllable (as in choc.late, av.rage, cam.ra for 'some' people).

Some people also pronounce it with [ʌ] in the first syllable, but it seems to be a later change or it may be dialectal.

Void
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    I would note that there is also a tendency for schwa followed by a continuous consonant (one that can be held) to be reduced to just a lengthening of that consonant, treating it as a syllabic consonant. This often leads to a further reduction where the consonant becomes normal length again, removing the syllable entirely. – trlkly Nov 28 '20 at 19:49
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    @trlkly: Spot on! I wanted to explain that as well, but it would further confuse the OP, so I didn't. (I explained that yesterday in another answer) – Void Nov 28 '20 at 19:52
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    This is a brilliant post, but is ELL.SE the right place for the answer (and by extension, the question)? This seems more like something graduate students in linguistics would chew on for a paper thesis than someone learning English could make use of. – user1717828 Nov 29 '20 at 12:50
  • @user1717828: You're quite right, but Weather Vane's answer was posted before mine. I answered because that answer didn't explain why the pronunciation was so weird or why it changed. Also, you should blame the questioner, not me. – Void Nov 29 '20 at 13:26
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    I very much like the trisyllabic laxing answer. That said, I'm reminded of the words gunwhale, boatswain, and less so forecastle. The last of those seems like it could have become laxed in its trisyllabicness, less so the first one and perhaps the second but perhaps not. I only mention those because their pronunciations seem to be abbreviated and "softened" (my word) in a similar way to threepenny, and perhaps by the same English-speaking subculture. Could there be more to threepenny's pronunciation than what is in this answer? – Todd Wilcox Nov 29 '20 at 22:17
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    @user1717828 You make a good point, and at the same time, when I have worked on learning other languages, I've found no information or trivial-seeming detail to be completely unhelpful. I can only imagine a particular challenge it must be for English learners to have to confront the startling differences in British versus American English, and IMHO this question sits in that space. I've never heard an American say /ˈθrɛp.ni/ or anything other than /ˈθriː.pɛ.ni/ when discussing The Threepenny Opera (the only situation where an American would say the word in the first place). – Todd Wilcox Nov 29 '20 at 22:24
  • I think it is valuable to learners that it is pointed out that there is a pattern here. As a German mathematician I have heard "infinite" mispronounced many times. (And even though this is not three syllables: I remember that the first time I heard "cyclic" in a talk, I did not recognize the word. Sounded like "sickly" to me ;) ) – Carsten S Nov 30 '20 at 12:51
  • @CarstenS: The pronunciation of 'Infinite' is probably because of Trisyllabic Laxing :) – Void Nov 30 '20 at 13:10
  • @user1717828 Have you actually asked a question like this yourself on Linguistics and English Language and Usage? If you haven't, you should! I have asked a few questions there and you know what they said.... most of them just make comments that don't make sentse at all and put people off those sites. I say this because it happened to me many times. I disagree with you. THIS is the perfect place for this question and of course for this brilliant answer. If you still disagree, you might as well go through all the pronunciation questions in here and you will see that most of them are like this. –  Nov 30 '20 at 13:19
  • And they have been answered. Check the questions I asked here and Void's and other contributors' marvelous answers to them. I am much more comfortable here than on those sites. People their just close questions immediately and make nasty comments on posts. –  Nov 30 '20 at 13:21
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I grew up with the 12-sided 3d coin. We did not call it "threepence" but "thruppence" with the u pronounced according to your dialect, sometimes as e. A penny, tuppence, thruppence. However that does not mean nobody ever said "three pence" or "three pennies". Since three is plural, it was pence not penny, except when referring to the actual coin: a thruppenny bit.

Why was it pronounced that way? Through common and frequent usage. You say

English spelling and pronunciation do go hand in hand

but this simply isn't true.

In 1971 UK converted to decimal coinage, the 3d coin went out of circulation, and the way that we spoke of the coins changed overnight. People said the stilted "three new pence" and although we now had a 2p coin, where there was previously none, everybody stopped saying "tuppence"" and said "two new pence." It was many years before people again began to say "tuppence", but because there is no 3p coin, it is not very often that "three pence" needs to be said, and that accounts for your impression of it being an uncommon word: it is historical.

Aside: you might like to know of the adjective tuppenny-ha'penny (2½d) which means "almost worthless".

Weather Vane
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    It's really interesting to know; however I don't see how it answers the question "why is threepenny pronounced /ˈθrɛpni/ and not */ˈθriːpɛni/". – Void Nov 28 '20 at 12:18
  • @Void: "common and frequent usage." – Weather Vane Nov 28 '20 at 12:20
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    This conversation is making me feel very old! I remember the 'threepenny bit' well, and most people I knew did say 'threpni'. Why? I suppose different ways evolved of saying 'three penny' quickly, depending on your regional accent. – Kate Bunting Nov 28 '20 at 13:05
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    Always /θrʌpəni/ or /θrʌpni/ for me (and I do mean /i/ not /ɪ/ at the end). – Colin Fine Nov 28 '20 at 14:02
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    I'm a (UK) Southerner, and in most contexts my HUT and GUT are completely different to PUT and FOOT. But in my recollection, many Southerners referred to a thrOOpenny bit (short bOOk, not long bOOt) rather than a thrUpenny bit. Even though being Southerners, we naturally used tUpence rather than tOOpence. – FumbleFingers Nov 28 '20 at 15:11
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    @FF interesting observation. As southerners we did say "tuppence" but "throopence", possibly reversed in the north. – Weather Vane Nov 28 '20 at 15:13
  • @KateBunting you might even remember the farthing with a wren on the back, but are unlikely to remember the silver "joey" (which despite the name did /not/ feature a kangaroo). – Mark Morgan Lloyd Nov 29 '20 at 13:19
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    I apologize for writing "do" instead of "don't". Please see the edit. I'm really sorry. And thanks for the answer. –  Nov 30 '20 at 10:05
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threpni? All through my childhood in 1950s/60s England UK, it was pronounced thrupence / thrupnee, with the "u" pronounced as in "full". "Thrupence" was a very standard price for sweets (what US people call candy!) though there were plenty of sweets that could be purchased for less.

carly rheilan
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    What part of this answers the question - why is it not pronounced like "three-penny"? – Toby Speight Nov 30 '20 at 13:34
  • @TobySpeight Obviously your interpretation is good, but your version isn't actually what the question says: it does literally say (both in the title and in the body): why is it pronounced "threpni"? So "it's not" seems like a relevant answer, especially from a new user who doesn't have the reputation to make a comment instead. (In any case, do be nice to new contributors like it tells you in the comment box!) – James Martin Dec 01 '20 at 16:03
  • @James, it is pronounced as in the title, in at least some places. Saying it's not isn't a helpful answer, and I've downvoted because of that. It's rude to downvote without a comment, so I did, perhaps in a hurry - thanks for the nudge re niceness! – Toby Speight Dec 01 '20 at 17:47