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Sorry if the concepts relating the definite article are such volatile! Which articles (definite, indefinite, zero) can and can't be used before uncountable nouns?

For example:

  • The data extracted from a node (correct, right?)
  • A data extracted from .... (incorrect)
  • The tea was delicious (right?)
  • A tea produced by Ahmad company (incorrect)?

I thought wherever we can use "the" we also can use "a", but it seems we can use "the" before uncountable nouns but not "a" right? For example, I feel "the tea" could be incorrect! if yes why "the data" is not?

Ahmad
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    You ask a lot of question on ELL. May I suggest that you buy a good up-to-date scholarly grammar book, or go on a course? – BillJ Jan 16 '17 at 18:36
  • @BillJ Maybe I should do that; however, as you see my English is not that bad ;) ! I also searched for this topic on the web but found no matching item, at least on Ell! I feel that I almost got the definite article topic, but the question above is a bit confusing for me. – Ahmad Jan 16 '17 at 18:44
  • @BillJ Also my questions history shows that I got many up-votes for my questions! then they could be concerns of many others too! – Ahmad Jan 16 '17 at 18:45
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    Yes, but if you are seriously interested in learning English grammar, you must read grammar textbooks. We can't teach you everything about grammar on this site. And please remember that we are volunteers; we don't get paid for helping you, so a "thank you" would be nice every now and then. – BillJ Jan 16 '17 at 18:50
  • @BillJ I am thankful from you and others who helped me!, but I don't view this website the way you may see! I, as one who asks, and you, as one who answers, corporate to make a valuable resource for the future readers! I try to follow the rules, by not asking repeated questions, searching for my questions, explaining my concerns and .... this website needs both of us. There is also mechanisms to close a question! – Ahmad Jan 16 '17 at 18:56
  • @BillJ I also thanked you for your latest guide on chat room, but since there were a problem in the chat room, because I was on mobile, you may didn't see that :), anyway thank you and NOT BE TIRED (a literal translation of a Persian compliment) – Ahmad Jan 16 '17 at 18:57
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    Just a small note to one part -- we don't say "a data" because "data" is a plural noun. The singular is "datum". – Roger Jan 16 '17 at 18:58
  • @Roger Do we say "The tea"? – Ahmad Jan 16 '17 at 19:01
  • @Ahmad Yes, tea is still singular, so "the" or "a" can be used depending on the proper context. Both of your sentences about "tea" are correct usage. – Roger Jan 16 '17 at 19:05
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    The simple answer is yes. In fact the definite article "the" is compatible with all types of common noun: count singular, count plural, and non-count, e.g. Bring me [the ladder/ladders/the cement ]! – BillJ Jan 16 '17 at 19:37
  • @BillJ I summarized some rules in my answer to this question. – Ahmad Jan 17 '17 at 06:29

2 Answers2

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When you use 'the' before a noun, you are referring to a specific instance of that noun. It is a definite article.

'A', an indefinite article refers to a abstract or general version of that noun, basically, it's up to the listener/reader/circumstances to fill in which specific instance (if any) fits that noun.

In your examples:

  • The data extracted from a node, yes, correct. The specific data extracted from some node
  • A data extracted from .... Incorrect. 'data' is plural, as Roger pointed out in the comments. If you had said A datum extracted from... you would be referring to any one datum extracted. Which datum would depend on context.
  • The tea was delicious Correct. A specific tea was delicious
  • A tea produced by Ahmad company. Is correct. In this case, you are referring to any one type of tea produced by Ahmad Company. The context would explain more information. For example, if you had: "ABC, a tea produced by Ahmad Company....", you would know which one. On the other hand, "Oh, I'm just drinking a tea produced by Ahmad Company....", would not define which tea.

So in answer to your question, both 'a/an' and 'the' can be used before uncountable nouns, but it is up to the rest of the sentence to determine if that usage is correct or not.

I did a quick search, and this website seems like a good resource for indefinite/definite articles.

Lumos
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  • Thank you for the answer and the website! I also posted an answer to the question, please check if I am right there or not? – Ahmad Jan 17 '17 at 06:30
  • There's a man* at the door* refers to a specific man. You are mixing up definiteness and specificity. These are two different characteristics. The definite and indefinite articles refer to definiteness, not specificity. Otherwise they'd be called the specific and unspecific articles. I married a woman* from Alaska* refers to a specific, but indefinite woman. – green_ideas Jan 17 '17 at 16:22
  • @Clare, right. you didn't clarify which man or woman. Just a man or woman. It's up to the context to specify which one it is. In your case, 'man at the door' fills your condition of 'a man'. When you say 'a man' you could be talking about any person that falls under the category of 'man', the rest of your words explain the specifics. – Lumos Jan 17 '17 at 17:15
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I tried to summarize some general rules.

  • "the" can come before most nouns with some exception like most Proper nouns like Jane, London, however nouns like the Netherlands, the United States and some other nouns take "the".

  • Some uncountable nouns can be countable in some context, so they can take "a/an". they are specified with [countable, uncountable] in some dictionaries like Longman (tea, a tea, two teas, food, a food, foods)!

  • Solely uncountable nouns like information can take "the" or "no article" (e.g. the information or information). But they can't get "a/an" (an information is incorrect), they are listed as [uncountable] in some dictionaries.

  • Another important point is that a singular countable can't take "no article" (a computer, the computer, computers but not computer).

Please note that the topic is about the definite and indefinite articles. Other determines like "my","some ",.... can replace a definite or indefinite article, which are out of question here.

Ahmad
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  • If there is something wrong with my answer! please let me know! – Ahmad Jan 17 '17 at 06:35
  • I disagree. Many uncountable nouns can have no article, an indefinite article or a definite article. – SovereignSun Jan 17 '17 at 06:36
  • @SovereignSun I also said the same! please read the answer carefully, those uncountable nouns that you mean can have an indefinite article are categorized as countable/uncountable nouns, it's actually dictionaries like "Longman" treat them.http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/tea, but pure uncountable nouns can't get an indefinite article. – Ahmad Jan 17 '17 at 06:39
  • Also note that some nouns can't get 'the' when it's already a part of that noun, like names. – SovereignSun Jan 17 '17 at 06:39
  • @SovereignSun I also added Proper nouns exception – Ahmad Jan 17 '17 at 06:47
  • Don't you think, if there were some mathematical equation, scholars and linguists would have caught onto it by now? I really don't see this huge problem of articles, language is not about knowing when or where to place articles, it is much more sophisticated than that. (Note, not once did I use any article!) – Mari-Lou A Jan 20 '17 at 20:22
  • @mari my table is either correct or not. If it has a problem then I expect others to say that. Otherwise, just casting a down vote or questioning my answer doesn't tell anything. Also, my table doesn't simplify anything. One still should know which nouns are countable, which are uncountable and which both. And linguistics did that. You can find such categorization for entries of Longman dictionary. – Ahmad Jan 21 '17 at 04:29
  • You're very wrong about "computer", I can preface computer with "that" and ask: How much is that computer? (Did I use any articles in the comment?) Users will think looking at the table that articles are obligatory. The table says nothing about when or how – Mari-Lou A Jan 21 '17 at 07:26
  • Nouns are (often) prefaced by what is called a determiner. A determiner includes a/n, the, my, your, that, what etc. "What computer were you talking about?", "Have you seen my new computer?", "Whose computer is that?". In your answer you stated a singular countable noun must take either "the" or "a/an", You oversimplified. – Mari-Lou A Jan 21 '17 at 07:46
  • @mari OK, that's not a big issue. I can modify it, what else? – Ahmad Jan 21 '17 at 09:40
  • @mari maybe some points I listed are obvious for you but to me they are important. For example many times I used to forget an article before singular countable nouns, but now I can review my texts to check where I need and where I don't need them. I don't say they have no exception but they can do guide an elementary or an intermediate learner. – Ahmad Jan 21 '17 at 11:43
  • I suppose you would like me to rewrite your answer :) But I repeat my earlier criticism, the table says nothing about "how" or "when" to use the articles. You would do well to look at this recent ELL question and its answers. – Mari-Lou A Jan 21 '17 at 11:43
  • @mari I replied your comment in my previous comment. They only guide the user to be cautious about using them barely or with incorrect articles. If I mistake please tell me can I ever say "an information"? Or to use "computer" with no specifier or determiner? If you admit, then the table says the same. – Ahmad Jan 21 '17 at 11:56
  • For the last time, the table says nothing about how or when to use articles, it is therefore inadequate, and incomplete. I know there are languages that do not have articles, and I appreciate that they seem daunting, so there's nothing to stop you from making up rules that make sense to you, if they help—great! But posting that table as an "answer" is not a good idea, it would have been better if you had posted it in a question and asked if users could identify its flaws. And finally, if you have to explain a table , then you've defeated the purpose of creating a table in the first place. OK? – Mari-Lou A Jan 21 '17 at 12:09
  • @Mari-LouA you again didn't answer my questions about information and computer, it seems my usage of "either" or "must" was a problem, and I resolved it now in my answer, the table isn't important but some of its points! – Ahmad Jan 21 '17 at 13:12
  • @Mari-LouA Also, there is "definite" and "indefinite" concepts in Persian too, we just don't complicate things, we have an "indefinite" article, and when it is absent then the noun is "definite" or "generic", the context would determine that. However, it could be a good feature of English to explicitly shows the "definite" nouns! but there are other simple tricks in absent of it, like you may don't need two crossing articles! – Ahmad Jan 21 '17 at 13:15
  • @Mari-LouA For example!, In Persian "give me a pen" means give me any pen, "give me pen" or "give me that pen" means "give me the pen". And "Pen is a device for writing" is a usage of "generic" noun. by the way we have an "object" determiner, ra which is usually comes after specific nouns (with object role) and help to make them determine, For example "Give me Pen ra" or "I read Book ra" (I read the book) vs. "I read book" (I read books). – Ahmad Jan 21 '17 at 13:22
  • @Mari-LouA ... So sometimes it interfere with Persian and I may say "Computer is a device for computing", however now I have learned to say either "a computer, the computer or computers"...and a single "computer" needs revising.. – Ahmad Jan 21 '17 at 13:28
  • @Ahmad we can still say: "Many things became possible after the advent of computer". (I am not a native English speaker though) – mathreader Jun 13 '20 at 12:25