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I have a stupid question. Could a commercial bank creates Bitcoins the way it "creates" money if it was allowed to make loans in Bitcoins?

1muflon1
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They cannot create more tokens because number of Bitcoins is limited by the code (only 21 million of bitcoins can be ever mined). However, they can increase money supply of bitcoins via lending.

For example, if someone deposits 100 Bitcoins in a private bank and a bank is not forced by regulation or market self-regulation to keep 100% reserve, then they could lend some of that deposit. Let us say they would lend 50BTC and kept 50BTC as a reserve.

Now there is 150BTC in circulation. The original depositor still has 100BTC on his/hers deposit account but now there is also 50BTC loan. This makes total money supply of BTC 150 even if there are only 100 tokens.

1muflon1
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    That is not how fractional reserve banking works. See McLeay et al. – Mick Jan 07 '22 at 08:29
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    @Mick you don’t know what you are talking about.. This is one way how fractional reserve generally works you should read McLeay yourself because you clearly do not understand the paper. – 1muflon1 Jan 07 '22 at 11:53
  • https://www.hks.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/centers/mrcbg/programs/senior.fellows/2019-20%20fellows/BanksCannotLendOutReservesAug2013_%20(002).pdf – Mick Jan 07 '22 at 13:04
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    @Mick 1. The mechanism in that non-peer reviewed ‘paper’ is not the same as in McLeavy et al. 2. The paper says that that when loans are made central bank has to supply reserves. For Bitcoin this is not possible long term since central banks cannot create Bitcoins the same way as they can reserves. 3. The paper seems to promote the fringe MMT view of the matter – 1muflon1 Jan 07 '22 at 13:17
  • The concept of fractional reserve banking is only relevant to this question if the bank sector can create liabilities (bitcoin deposits) that exchange at par with the reserve asset (digital evidence of bitcoin). The bank can only create evidence of bitcoin via mining or must trade value for bitcoin to secure bitcoin for making loans. The bank cannot create bitcoin via keystroke entries in its digital ledger as it can via the franchise that permits banks to expand the elastic money supply in the domestic currency. So i would say banks cannot create bitcoin by making bitcoin loans. – SystemTheory Jan 07 '22 at 17:13
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    @SystemTheory if what you say would be correct then gold standard fractional reserve system could never have existed. Empirically west had about 200 years experience with fractional reserve gold standard so you cannot be correct. – 1muflon1 Jan 07 '22 at 18:19
  • Gold is a non-financial asset. Fiat means "by decree". When a State or other human customs decree or act as if gold is money this means some quantity and quality of gold is given a unit name (e.g., dollar) and symbol (e.g., $). Next banks keep gold in the vault and issue paper banknotes that exchange for gold dollars. Now banks have issued a legal liability, using the unit name and symbol, and the bearer of banknotes holds a financial asset. If payments clear by check or banknotes then bank liabilities become money and bank loans increase money supply. Bitcoin is not created as bank liability. – SystemTheory Jan 07 '22 at 19:57
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  • Fractional reserve system was used before paper money. Even before banknotes mints lent out deposited gold. 2. bitcoin is literally not a fiat money but fiduciary money. 3. You are not even using word money in its economic meaning, money does not need to be a liability. A rock someone owns is perfectly capable of being a money without being a liability
  • – 1muflon1 Jan 07 '22 at 20:13
  • Non-financial assets (gold, bitcoin) can be used as means of payment (money). Banks cannot create such non-financial assets. Gold is a tangible metal whose total supply is limited by physical mining and refinement of gold. Bitcoin is an intangible asset whose total supply is limited by the bitcoin algorithm. Liabilities can also become customary means of payment (money). Under "free banking" gold standard banks or non-banks could issue paper notes as liabilities payable in gold at their gold window. If such liabilities circulate as means of payment they are money. Banks do not create bitcoin. – SystemTheory Jan 08 '22 at 00:13
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    They do not need to create them, bank can lend physical gold deposited in it expanding money supply, this does not require banknotes. Pre 17 century banks operated without bank notes – 1muflon1 Jan 08 '22 at 11:18
  • If gold or bitcoin are used as non-financial assets and means of payment (money) then let this be generalized as non-financial money NFM. If nonbanks transfer NFM to banks then this reduces NFM outside banks and increases bank reserves held in the form of NFM. Banks cannot increase the money supply of NFM by lending because they must first borrow or obtain those NFM from a source outside the bank sector. Banks can lend dollars or other fiat currency against bitcoin collateral. They cannot create bitcoin by lending bitcoin. Banks might create monetary liabilities that trade at par with bitcoin. – SystemTheory Jan 10 '22 at 15:50
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    you do not understand the definition of money supply but in economics deposits counts as a part of money supply. If someone deposits 100btc into bank and bank takes 50 of those btcs and transfers them to some another account as loan money supply of bitcion literally by definition will be 150. The deposit account is still showing 100btc even if bank actually does not physically have 100 btc but only 50 – 1muflon1 Jan 10 '22 at 15:56
  • I do understand bank accounting mechanics and ownership claims under the rule of law. Let the token metal coin or digital evidence of coin be recognized as a non-financial asset that serves as customary means of payment. This is non-financial money (NFM). If I own 150 NFM, and lend 100 NFM to you, or deposit it in the bank, then you or the bank owe me 100 NFM and I own the other 50 NFM. There is still just 150 NFM. If bank lends my 100 NFM deposit then bank borrower takes possession of 100 NFM. The bank holds a financial asset equal to the 100 NFM repayment note. The total is still 150 NFM. – SystemTheory Jan 10 '22 at 19:57
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    This has nothing to do with rule of law. If someone deposits 100 BTC into a bank there is in economy 100 BTC worth of the deposit. If now bank takes 50 of that 100BTC deposit and lends it as a 50 BTC loan and keeps 50 as a reserve the BTC money supply is 150 regardless that only 100 BTC were mined because money supply is, among other things, sum of deposits and money in circulation and deposit is still 100 even if bank took 50 BTC from that deposit – 1muflon1 Jan 10 '22 at 20:17
  • Law is the basis for ownership and control of scarce resources. It is also the basis for accounting customs. Physical supply of gold coin does not increase, because it cannot increase, when a bank makes a physical loan of gold coin. Instead the bank holds a note and the borrower takes the right to hold or spend the gold coin. If the bank makes the loan via the issue and expansion of its own banknotes or deposits, and if customers clear payment using the bank's liabilities, then the bank can and does expand the money supply. The bank does not create gold and it does not create BTC. – SystemTheory Jan 10 '22 at 20:27
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    Nobody claims that physical supply of coins increases, the claim is that the money supply increases. Just google definition of money supply in economics. Also law is not basis for accounting customs google history of accounting. Historically basis for accounting was record keeping not law. – 1muflon1 Jan 10 '22 at 20:28
  • The question is whether banks create BTC? The answer is no because banks do not have the power to create or destroy BTC via the act of borrowing and lending. However if the banks issue BTC liabilities, similar to gold banknotes or modern bank deposits, and if the bank customers transfer ownership of these financial assets to clear payment, then the bank sector would have the power to increase the BTC money supply, via fractional reserve banking, but still could not create BTC. This is a direct analogy to the gold supply and the increase of bank liabilities trading at par with gold currency. – SystemTheory Jan 10 '22 at 20:39
  • @SystemTheory please read the question. The question is not if banks can literally create Bitcoin. The author literally says that the question is if banks can “create” money (if you are not aware of English language usage of sneer quotes “” please google that as well). Also the question literally asks if banks can create more bitcoins the same using loans not if it can mine more bitcoins. 100btc account is still economically considered 100BTC even if bank has only 50 BTC in its crypto vault – 1muflon1 Jan 10 '22 at 20:44