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If women are paid less for the same work, why don't employers hire just women? Do employers decide to lose profits just out of sexism, in feminists' and researchers' opinion? It doesn't make sense to me. In the free and competitive market, if people earn less, it means they generate, or are expected to generate, less added value (for example, because they are less educated). Am I wrong?

1muflon1
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Sergey Zolotarev
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    Welcome to Economics:SE. Thank you for your question; please consider revising it to be more in line with our community expectations. Like many other stacks, we expect questions to provide evidence of prior research. That helps us to understand the question, and avoids our repeating work you've already done. Our help center, and other stacks provide additional resources to assist with revisions. – 1muflon1 Mar 12 '21 at 18:12
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    https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/jel.20160995 – Alan Mar 13 '21 at 00:53
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    I think you need to specify "irrational wage gap". There are wage gaps due to age and experience, which aren't considered problematic, because they are rational. If customers prefers employees of a certain kind, it is not irrational to pay that kind of employees more. – d-b Mar 13 '21 at 07:30
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    Also, do we know that unemployment rates of women (note unemployment means only those who are actively looking) are not lower than men? What is the evidence on this? Seems to be a crucial assumption in this question.. – Papayapap Mar 13 '21 at 11:24
  • @DJClayworth That is exactly the answer DonQuiKong gave. – Papayapap Mar 13 '21 at 18:23
  • In this modern era, the skill set and the soft skills decide the package of an employee and that is not biased based on gender. Information technology is the sector to name a few, where people, who possess the same skillset are provided with the same pay-scale band, if someone is getting a low wage then that means either they are doing redundant/ useless work, let it be a woman or man. you can go and check the websites like payscale where you can't find the payscale based on the gender basis which means it's all same of all – Prasanth Rajendran Mar 13 '21 at 19:12
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    Because "women are paid less" has always generally been a myth from manipulated statistics. The primary contributor to this is new mothers working part time or being on maternity leave (it's more accurately referred to as "the motherhood penalty"). Therefore hiring more women wouldn't save the company money, it would require more employees to fill in gaps if the employees were building families. :) – Jason C Mar 13 '21 at 19:37
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    @eshansingh1 Why? I see many people criticizing the measurement of the wage gap, but is this inherently sexist? Or did you refer to other comments? – Papayapap Mar 13 '21 at 20:29
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    My male nurse friend told me that wage gap happens in the field because there are simply too few male nurse and they don't have to be out for a year per child for maternity leave. So hospitals fight to bring male nurse to their own hospital. And salary offer increases as a result. So this is not a simple matter to explain. Wage gap doesn't always happen due to discrimination. – jamryu Mar 13 '21 at 22:35
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    @therealManUtdFan arguably, your particular example is straightforward textbook discrimination and would be illegal (though perhaps very hard to prove and enforce) in many countries. Discrimination law in e.g. EU explicitly defines "indirect discrimination" as discrimination based on factors that are not necessarily the "prohibited factor" but directly related to it, and explicitly prohibits such discrimination in employment; the likelihood of future maternity leave is one such factor, which obviously matters for practical reasons but is "taboo" to take into account as it's discriminatory. – Peteris Mar 13 '21 at 23:07
  • I have wondered if the wage gap/parity is the same (or close) for businesses owned or led by women, as it is for businesses owned or led by men. It is a question distinct from yours, though. – donjuedo Mar 14 '21 at 05:49
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    In the past, a family with two children meant that the woman had basically a few years less experience than a man of the same profession. Hire a male professional with 5 years experience vs a female professional with 2 years experience she will not make as much money. In the Netherlands they force men to take off for maternity (a year I think?) as well as women to address this gap. – Mikey Mar 14 '21 at 14:34
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    @JaredSmith The "Copenhagen interpretation of ethics" doesn't in any way prevent people from arbitraging away such a difference, supposing it were real (i.e. not attributable to other factors). It simple prevents talking about it in the way that Evan Thornley did. This is, of course, putting aside the part where deliberately creating such a gap would generally be against the law, at least in developed industrial nations. But if a Thornley type were barred from doing this by law, then either there is another law breaker already, or there is not an actual issue. – Karl Knechtel Mar 14 '21 at 21:38
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    This question is bait-and-switch and needs work. The gender pay gap is defined as the overall pay women receive vs men, not the pay in a specific role. It encompasses the tendency to promote men over women, and hire men over women with the same qualifications. Reducing it to "pay in the same job/role" is missing the point and inviting a lot of poor answers that don't deal with it being a bad question in the first place.

    Refer https://www.epi.org/publication/what-is-the-gender-pay-gap-and-is-it-real, https://www.wgea.gov.au/the-gender-pay-gap etc. for definitions. Suggest mods look at Q.

    – throx Mar 14 '21 at 22:49
  • @DJClayworth What you're missing is that so long as it's not the majority of employers who feel women should get less that it won't matter--if discrimination drives wages down they're a better deal and other employers will snap them up. – Loren Pechtel Mar 14 '21 at 23:30
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    @throx: Nonsense. The question may deal with an uncomfortable topic, but it is rational and well posed. And if the OP happened to miss a nuance in the pay-gap issue, let them be corrected by the answers that will come. Suppressing discussion does nothing but perpetuate ignorance where it exists. –  Mar 14 '21 at 23:31
  • @user39728 Poorly worded and ambiguous questions, particularly on "uncomfortable topics" promote ignorance rather than enlightenment. This has been borne out on social media for the last decade or so, as fact-free conspiracies fly all over the place and birth movements like QAnon. OP needs to define "wage gap" better, and clarify that their use of it does not meet the generally accepted definition, or the question as posed does more to disinform than inform, and create controversy where there should be none. – throx Mar 15 '21 at 07:18
  • Some of these comments are answers in disguise. Write answers as answers, not comments. – Stig Hemmer Mar 15 '21 at 08:23
  • @throx: Discussion is the antidote to ignorance. If the OP truly is ignorant, let the answers correct that. It is not up to one individual or even a few individuals to singlehandedly stop discussion because they feel more enlightened and figure no one else should get the privilege of talking the issues out. Let there be discussion. If it makes you uncomfortable, it may well mean that we desperately need to more carefully think about the issues posed. Or it may mean that you're afraid your perspective isn't sound and liable to be proved wrong. Let the discussion happen. This is not about you. –  Mar 15 '21 at 14:30
  • The question is excellent in my view. If the market is free, and employers are in business to make money, are they purposely increasing operating expenses by hiring the more expensive males when females will produce the same for less? As a business owner, I'd be tempted to hire more females than males on that basis alone. So would anyone interested in making more money, especially if they are barely staying afloat, since then it becomes a matter of survival. This would make women more valuable until their pay equaled that of males. So why is this not the case? We should know this. –  Mar 15 '21 at 14:36
  • To say that employers are simply biased toward males and therefore pay them more is to say nothing. If the stock market was biased toward Apple stock so that it became overvalued relative to its competitors, the smart investors would take money out of Apple and pour it in the cheaper competitors until Apple was no longer overvalued. If males are paid more than females while producing the same, then the smart employers will hire more females, invest the cash saved and prosper over all others. The smart employers would grow and the demand for females and their pay would too. Just market dynamics –  Mar 15 '21 at 14:44
  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – 1muflon1 Mar 15 '21 at 15:12

9 Answers9

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There could be several reasons here are just few:

  1. Principal-agent problems. Firms are typically not managed by their owners but by managers (agents) who act on the behalf of owners/shareholders (principals). While, owners might desire to maximize profits agents can to some degree act to pursue their own goals (see discussion in Hendrikse Economics and Management of Organizations).

    For example, CEO might spend more lavishly on things like their private jet, limo, having HQ built by famous architect than profit maximizing CEO would. In the same way CEO/manager with taste for discrimination might pursue that taste even at the expense of profit (to a degree of course).

  2. Consumers could have taste for discrimination. This is in fact classic example coming from one of the earliest work on discrimination. If consumers simply have preference for seeing men instead of women at some work and are willing to pay for satisfying this preference, there will be wage gap between men and women (see Mankiw Principles of Economics pp 395).

    Mankiw has a good example of this for the race wage gap, but the logic of the example directly extends to gender wage gap:

    Studies of sports teams suggest that racial discrimination has, in fact, been common and that much of the blame lies with customers. One study, published in the Journal of Labor Economics in 1988, examined the salaries of basketball players and found that black players earned 20 percent less than white players of comparable ability. The study also found that attendance at basketball games was larger for teams with a greater proportion of white players. One interpretation of these facts is that, at least at the time of the study, customer discrimination made black players less profitable than white players for team owners. In the presence of such customer discrimination, a discriminatory wage gap can persist, even if team owners care only about profit.

  3. It could be result of government intervention (See discussion in Mankiw Principles of Economics pp 395).

    For example, many governments around the world mandate that firms have to provide women with job guarantee during late pregnancy/mothers leave. Perks like these are costly and in competitive markets firms will just pass costs of these perks directly on their female employees (in form of lower wage - although this would not affect total compensation it is part of explanation for wage differentials).

  4. Most labor markets are not perfect. In imperfect labor markets there are often quasi-rents to have that can be split between employee and employer. If for example women tend to be less assertive during negotiation (e.g. see Amanatullah & Morris, 2010), they might end up with less quasi-rents than their male counterparts (this argument is covered in greater detail in the Papayapap's answer).

The list above is not exclusive, but those are one of the major reasons you will commonly find in economics textbooks.

To sum it up, the argument you make in the question is valid argument but it is only guaranteed to work under host of additional supporting assumptions. For example, assumption that customers do not care about gender might be true in some profession but not in others (e.g. perhaps male anchor appears more trustworthy to audience?).

Although careful studies that control for all relevant characteristics show that gender wage gap is much smaller than laymen commonly perceive it to be, based on senseless comparison of aggregates between male and female pay, many studies show that there still is some gender pay gap that cannot be accounted for by objective factors. See discussion of these results in this nice explainer from The Economist. For example, in 2016 the gender pay gap in the UK was estimated to be only $0.8\%$, in France$2.7\%$ and Germany $3\%$, once objective factors were accounted for. That is admittedly small, but should not be trivialized nonetheless.

JonathanReez
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1muflon1
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    +1 Your last paragraph "Although careful studies ...." makes an important point which could well have been given more prominence. – Adam Bailey Mar 12 '21 at 21:57
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    +1 On consumer based discrimination, I think a more commonly used example these days is that of a female car mechanic, which tends to be trusted less (for given skill) by customers unfortunately. Just wanted to park that example in case it helps anyone. – BB King Mar 13 '21 at 01:04
  • I think you need to specify "irrational wage gap". There are wage gaps due to age and experience, which aren't considered problematic because they are rational. If customers prefers employees of a certain kind, it is not irrational to pay that kind of employees more. – d-b Mar 13 '21 at 07:30
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    I'd also add that many women shift focus in their 30s to their family life. They may switch to working part time or take several years off and fall behind on their career path. There are few women CEOs because those kinds of jobs are extremely competitive, requiring lots of working experience and long working hours, and many women just don't think it's worth it. If annual income is used as a measure, part time workers will skew the data. – eipi Mar 13 '21 at 07:40
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    On point 3, are you referring specifically to governments with sexist laws, giving mothers more parental leave than fathers? AFAIK Switzerland had such a law until fairly recently. – gerrit Mar 13 '21 at 09:07
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    Good answer until your last paragraph. Controlling for the causes of the pay gap doesn't give you better data, it just ignores the causes. – Jack Aidley Mar 13 '21 at 09:34
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    @gerrit yes, if the laws are equal then this would not create an issue. There could still be an issue if culturally women are always the ones going on the mothers leave but then government would not be the cause – 1muflon1 Mar 13 '21 at 09:38
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    @JackAidley no you have to compare apples with apples not apples with oranges. In economics when we talk about gender pay gap it is gap caused solely by having different gender. If there is a male IT professional with 2 PhDs earning 5000e per month and female factory worker without finished high school earning 500e per month the difference between those two people is not gender wage gap, but difference in human capital and so on. If you are actually interested in gender wage gap you need to control for skill, experience, education, hours, profession etc - that is elementary statistics – 1muflon1 Mar 13 '21 at 09:44
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    @1muflon1 If you control for experience and hours you ignore women's loss of experience and hours through childcare, if you control for different pay in different professions you ignore the causal role of gender bias in these pay differentials. If you're actually interested in the pay gap you need to consider the impact across the whole gamut of issues not crudely control for issues that are actually causal. This is elementary in avoiding the misapplication of statistics. – Jack Aidley Mar 13 '21 at 10:31
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    @JackAidley you are clearly not an economist so let me explain this in layman terms. Gender wage gap in econ. lit. is wage gap that cannot be explained by other factors, also the child care is one of the factors that is being controlled for. Of course, that does not mean that there is no sexism in society for example patriarchal culture that lets say steers women away from high paying stem jobs to humanities and so on. However, while these are important issues they are not indicative of gender discrimination in pay. For example, if women have less PhD due to sexist culture that is a problem – 1muflon1 Mar 13 '21 at 10:43
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    and certainly unjust, but the resulting wage differential is due differences in human capital even if the opportunities to accumulate human capital were not equal. Again this does not mean that it is not important, or that we should not do something about it, it is just different issue. Economics.SE is a science stack not opinion forum hence the terminology and jargon used is that of field of economics. – 1muflon1 Mar 13 '21 at 10:48
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    @JackAidley Controlling for the causes of the pay gap doesn't give you better data, it just ignores the causes. Nonsense -- you don't have a firm grasp of statistics, either. If you don't control for other correlated and confounding factors you cannot isolate the variable of interest. Completely basic stuff when performing a statistical analysis. Your approach would have you claiming that increased sweater sales causes colds and a load of equally silly things. – eps Mar 13 '21 at 21:50
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    Completely absent from the discussion of 'patriarchal society' 'steering' anything is the question of whether male humans and female humans want or tend toward the same careers or life options in general. Biology alone tells us that men and women won't want the same things, so it is a false basis and assumption to begin with - 'if there is disparity between men and women, it is because of malice on the part of the sex that benefits more (necessarily) than the other sex.' But I realize that science is divided up into The Science™ and actual empirical scientific facts. – SolaGratia Mar 13 '21 at 21:53
  • In other words, if the correlation between A and B disappears after you introduce C, A and B are not causatively linked. – eps Mar 13 '21 at 22:05
  • @SolaGratia, I don't think the allegation of "malice" arises simply from the existence of the differentials in the first place - which can be attributed to impersonal systemic factors - but from the resistance to systemic change which would redress the differentials that have emerged. Although men and women may want different things, there's little evidence that one wants their employment to be systematically lower paid than the other, so I see no mileage in that point. – Steve Mar 13 '21 at 23:28
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    @Steve there’s a great deal of evidence, however, that women are more likely to value things over money when choosing a job. That’s not “wanting to be lower paid”, it’s wanting a more fitting culture, or flexible work hours. Example: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018#work-_-differences-in-assessing-jobs-by-gender. – Tim Mar 13 '21 at 23:49
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    @Tim, what's a "more fitting culture" anyway? And "flexible" work hours are probably just hours which integrate with the demands of childcare. There is no necessary reason why these should be incompatible with equal pay, particularly as men can also perform childcare. You cast the situation as women choosing to forfeit pay in exchange for flexibility, tacitly holding that they can't have both. I'd also suggest an alternative possibility, which is that a pay forfeit is not chosen individually, but simply imposed collectively. – Steve Mar 14 '21 at 00:11
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    @Steve I have no idea what a more fitting culture is. That’s up to them? Let me put it this way. I chose to work for a company in a certain city. I chose a company that’s relatively small. I chose a company with flexible hours. I chose a company within a 20 minute commute. Those are my choices. I value those over more money. Suggesting that the reasons women are paid less is out of their control implies they have no agency. And you seem to suggest that women can have everything? That’s nonsense. Everything in life is a series of trade offs, be it work, housing, relationships, whatever. – Tim Mar 14 '21 at 00:19
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    @Tim, I neither said that "women had no agency" nor that "women can have everything". I firstly contended that one thing women certainly cannot seem to choose is both equal pay and working hours consistent with childcare, and you react with incredulity that such a thing is even possible. There are a variety of ways in which it is possible, but a main one I would suggest is that all jobs (whether occupied by men or women) are made consistent by default with childcare responsibilities, in the same way we organise all jobs to be consistent with necessary eating and sleeping. – Steve Mar 14 '21 at 00:35
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    @Steve "there's little evidence that one wants their employment to be systematically lower paid than the other" The amount of evidence that women are paid less than men because they aren't men is less than little - it's zero. It's also illegal to pay women less, which means women don't have to put up with less pay in any way. Men aren't women, and men and women aren't the same. They are equally human, and thus have equal dignity. But that's where the similarities stop, and differences begin. Beyond this is scienceand biology (and since 5 minutes ago in human history, 'hate speech'). – SolaGratia Mar 14 '21 at 00:37
  • @Steve sleeping and eating are necessary: having children is a choice. Working hours consistent with childcare have a cost (the employee not always being available etc). Why should the company take that burden? And why should people who chose to have children have special provisions made for them? I wouldn’t expect all companies to fit in with my choice to (say) want to travel Europe, or go out parting every night and start work late, or work remotely without an internet connection. All of those are choices. I don’t see why having children is some special case! – Tim Mar 14 '21 at 00:42
  • @Steve try ignoring gender from the mix. Why should I, a man with no children, be treated differently from a man with children? Sure: you could give me “hours that work with childcare” too, but that has no value to me. I would prefer more money over that. I’m sure if and when I chose to have children, my priorities would change, but that’s part of the choice. That choice has upsides (I gather having children is rewarding, maybe someone to look after me when I’m old) and downsides (loss of freedom, high cost, space in my home, responsibility for another human) – Tim Mar 14 '21 at 00:44
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    @SolaGratia, I don't contend men and women are the same. But it's false to say it's illegal to pay women less than men - it's actually perfectly lawful to do so, provided they are distributed into different occupations, different grades, or even just distributed across different employers, because the law says that differences across these boundaries are not within the scope of protections in place. – Steve Mar 14 '21 at 00:46
  • @Steve that’s not paying women less, that’s paying less for different jobs... – Tim Mar 14 '21 at 00:50
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    @Tim, having children is no less necessary for our society as a whole than eating or sleeping is. I concede it isn't necessary for every individual to be engaged in it, and it can be suspended for longer than eating and sleeping, but no less necessary overall. As for why the company should take the burden, for exactly the same reasons as it must take the burden of sleeping and eating - they are necessary functions that must be accomodated. – Steve Mar 14 '21 at 00:55
  • @Steve I mean we can argue about the societal necessity (and if there is a societal necessity, society should bear the cost via government I think, not employers), but it is very definitely almost always an individual choice to have a child. I don’t think my employer should bear the burden for my individual choices. I should. Otherwise a) where do you draw the line and b) how do you make it fair for people who make different choices? – Tim Mar 14 '21 at 01:01
  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – 1muflon1 Mar 14 '21 at 01:04
  • Your definition of gender wage gap is a bit peculiar. The OECD indicator for gender wage gap, for example, is simply "defined as the difference between median earnings of men and women relative to median earnings of men." Controlling for characteristics that covary with gender is certainly the right approach if you are looking for the effect of direct discrimination, but it is also akin to defining the gender wage gap away. See https://data.oecd.org/earnwage/gender-wage-gap.htm – henning Mar 17 '21 at 19:11
  • @henning--reinstateMonica as per comments above I am using definition commonly applied across empirical literature. In econ literature gender pay gap means one that cannot be explained when you look at apples for apples comparisons. What OECD calls gender pay gap would in literature be called ‘unadjusted pay gap’ - always with that clarifier in similar way as economists will by default often refer to real variables and apply qualifier nominal to non-real variables – 1muflon1 Mar 17 '21 at 19:20
  • @1muflon1 yes indeed, I just came back to add that what you're discussing is the adjusted gender wage gap, which in some ways is practically less relevant. Anyway, I think this distinction is crucial and should be made prominent in your answer. Not making the distinction leads to useless discussing at cross-purposes (see many comments above, IMO). – henning Mar 17 '21 at 19:23
  • @henning--reinstateMonica but the unadjusted gender pay gap is economically and practically irrelevant - it has the same informative value as comparing prices across different countries without using exchange rateit’s like comparing prices of apples in Swiss franks and Rubles, and not really used in economics literature, this is science stack so I prefer using established terminology regardless of terminology used by laymen. – 1muflon1 Mar 17 '21 at 19:26
  • @1muflon1 I understand and respect your point of view, but I don't share it. First, as can be seen in some other answers, there is a lot of confusion, as readers (including laypersons) conflate the adjusted and unadjusted gender wage gap. Second, it is practically highly relevant that characteristics affecting wages such as full or part-time employment, labour market experience, childcare obligations, education etc. covary with gender. It seems I might have to contribute my own answer. :) – henning Mar 17 '21 at 19:55
  • @henning--reinstateMonica the problem is that unadjusted gender pay gap carries no useful information about these. It does not tell you if women work more part time, it does not tell you if women put more time into child care, it does not tell you if women have less education it is some sum of all these effects it is completely possible women work more have more education and it’s all caused by positive discrimination in immigration that lets more immigrant women (there is usually wage penalty for immigrants) etc. You can contribute your answer but your answer should not be based on your – 1muflon1 Mar 17 '21 at 20:15
  • @henning--reinstateMonica on your opinion or your views but based on facts/scientific studies etc. if you think you can find support for that view (on usefulness of unadjusted gap) in actual literature then go ahead (although I would be very surprised if that would be possible). Also note I do believe that there is discrimination happening but this is science stacks so we expect answers rooted in science not opinions/views see the help center. Also make sure your answer actually addresses the question which is not about gender pay gap per se – 1muflon1 Mar 17 '21 at 20:16
  • @1muflon1 sure, I agree. Unfortunately there are quite a few opinion-based answers already. – henning Mar 17 '21 at 21:14
  • @henning--reinstateMonica you are right and many of those users were contacted by mod team and got flags and now we have whole discussion on deleting such posts on the spot and the other opinion based answers might still be deleted one already was see this new meta about that https://economics.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2099/post-removal-and-rules-reminder. If you want to chance it go ahead but you will be just stirring more trouble and more work and headache for us mods. If you are interested in providing science based answer go ahead maybe you can manage to make good argument – 1muflon1 Mar 17 '21 at 21:19
  • @1muflon1 I'm only interested in providing an answer backed up with references and based on sound reasoning. So it will take some time to do this (I'm busy with two papers right now), if I do it. Kudos for a strict policy on opinion-based answers. Politics.se is pretty unusable for lack of one, IMO. – henning Mar 18 '21 at 06:56
  • Just because some factors have been controlled for doesn't mean all factors have been controlled for. 2. “Controlling” for a variable is simply a statistical term for making adjustments that are our best guess for how to compensate for it. It doesn't magically tell us what would remain if we removed that variable would be. Statistics doesn't work that way.
  • – Acccumulation Mar 19 '21 at 18:02
  • “but the unadjusted gender pay gap is economically and practically irrelevant” If women are acquiring less human capital, that absolutely is relevant in general (although not to this question). Comparing it to not taking into exchange rate is absurd. – Acccumulation Mar 19 '21 at 18:02
  • @d-b “There are wage gaps due to age and experience, which aren't considered problematic because they are rational. If customers prefers employees of a certain kind, it is not irrational to pay that kind of employees more.” That doesn't mean it isn't problematic. – Acccumulation Mar 19 '21 at 18:02
  • @eps “In other words, if the correlation between A and B disappears after you introduce C, A and B are not causatively linked.” That's not how causation works. If the difference between black wages and white wages in 1870 disappears when you control for whether someone is a former slave, that doesn't mean that race and income aren't causally linked. – Acccumulation Mar 19 '21 at 18:03
  • @Steve “And "flexible" work hours are probably just hours which integrate with the demands of childcare.” “Flexible” doesn't refer to when the hours are, but how they are determined. If the employee can decide when the hours are, then they are flexible. – Acccumulation Mar 19 '21 at 18:03
  • @JackAidley “Controlling for the causes of the pay gap doesn't give you better data, it just ignores the causes.” This question asks specifically about discrimination on employer level. While the causes of women having less value to employers is a valid issue in general, they are beyond the scope of this question. – Acccumulation Mar 19 '21 at 18:03
  • @Acccumulation comments are not for extended discussion. Please use chat – 1muflon1 Mar 19 '21 at 18:34
  • @Acccumulation Yes, it does. – d-b Mar 19 '21 at 20:44