It seems to me that if God chooses not only those who will go to heaven, but those who will go to hell, a Calvinist would hold the position of Universalism, that being that all people will be saved. Why shouldn't they? If God is merciful and loving and decides the fate of every human, why would he send them to hell? Why doesn't he send them all to heaven since he makes that final decision?
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Jesus said of some 'Ye are of your father, the devil' : it is an enemy that has done this, not God. But up-voted +1 and answered. – Nigel J Feb 25 '22 at 04:39
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1I tried to comment on your blog regarding Sola Scriptura but your Captcha isn't working. You misquote. It is not 'our spoken word' it is just 'by word'. The appeal is to 'word' as such. To Logos. To Him who speaks from heaven. The appeal of the apostle is not just to his written word, and the word of other apostles : it is also to 'word'. It is to Jesus Christ himself who speaks, in Spirit, and speaks to the heart. He, the Word of God, is the source of all. – Nigel J Feb 25 '22 at 04:51
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@springworks00 The OP, here, is not postulating that God 'elects some to judgment'. That is a completely separate issue. The OP, here, is asking why all are not 'elected' to heaven. Your link is to a very different question. – Nigel J Feb 25 '22 at 07:45
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@NigelJ actually, I was referring to “election to judgment AND election to salvation”. That’s what double predestination is. – Luke Hill Feb 25 '22 at 14:04
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1I disagree. I have voted to reopen. The questions are not on the same issue (whatever the intention). – Nigel J Feb 25 '22 at 14:11
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGIwHhVL68Y – Mike Borden Mar 13 '22 at 11:58
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So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Matthew 13:27-30 KJV
'An enemy hath done this'.
Those who are chosen in Christ, were 'chosen in Him before the foundation of the world that they should be holy and without blame before him in love' Ephesians 1:4.
Before the foundation of the world, before the creation of humanity, before Adam transgressed, before sin was in the world - then were they chosen in Him.
Afterwards, an enemy sowed the evil seed.
'An enemy hath done this'.
And these are to be left until the harvest of the whole earth when the vine of the earth is gathered :
And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. [Revelation 14:19 KJV]
'Bind them in bundles to burn them : but gather the wheat into my barn'.
John Calvin saw the spirituality of election. He saw what occurred before the foundation of the world. And he saw that when sin entered into the world, it was the deed of an enemy.
Thereafter, a seed was generated which was not of Christ.
'An enemy hath done this'.
As it is not by creation that God makes his elect, who have been tainted with original sin, to become a good seed, but by regenerating them through the grace of his Spirit; so wicked men are not created by the devil, but, having been created by God, are corrupted by the devil, and thrown into the Lord’s field, in order to corrupt the pure seed.
Nigel J
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1What I think I’m struggling to understand here - and I’d love to here your thoughts on this - is 2 questions. First, to what extent can God’s sovereignty over the actions of man be repelled by the forces of darkness. Second, why has the enemy not taken everyone? – Luke Hill Mar 13 '22 at 02:11
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Nigel I don't want to make you answer or anything - but I wanted to make sure you at least saw my questions and were given a chance to answer. – Luke Hill Mar 23 '22 at 05:56
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Your question was about 'Calivinists' and I answered it. You are asking more questions in comment, which is not what comment is for. @LukeHill – Nigel J Mar 23 '22 at 08:51
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1A very good answer. I usually see "Calvinism" summoned as a label and used as an insult - but I see it as a compliment here - especially today. – user22542 Apr 10 '22 at 11:38
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Why doesn’t God save everyone?
John Piper:
…1 Timothy 2:4, where Paul says that God wills all persons to be saved. What are we to say of the fact that God wills something that in fact does not happen? These are two possibilities. One is that there is a power in the universe greater than God’s that is frustrating him by overruling what he wills. …The other possibility is that God wills not to save all, even though he is willing to save all, because there is something else that he wills more, which would be lost if he exerted his sovereign power to save all. …Both Calvinists and Arminians affirm two wills in God when they ponder deeply over 1 Timothy 2:4. Both can say that God wills for all to be saved. But then when queried why all are not saved both Calvinist and Arminian answer that God is committed to something even more valuable than saving all. …What does God will more than saving all? The answer given by Arminians is that human self-determination and the possible resulting love relationship with God are more valuable than saving all people by sovereign, efficacious grace. The answer given by Calvinists is that the greater value is the manifestation of the full range of God’s glory in wrath and mercy (Rom. 9:22–23) and the humbling of man so that he enjoys giving all credit to God for his salvation (1 Cor. 1:29). [1.]
Notes:
[1.] Thomas R. Schreiner, Bruce A. Ware, eds., Still Sovereign: Contemporary Perspectives on Election, Foreknowledge & Grace, (Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 2000), John Piper, “Are There Two Wills in God?” pp. 123-124.
Καὶ αὐτός ἐστιν πρὸ πάντων καὶ τὰ πάντα ἐν αὐτῷ συνέστηκεν.
~ Soli Deo Gloria
Benjamin
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I’ll accept this answer - I still don’t think I agree with Piper that God’s exhibition of mercy and wrath is a higher order good as compared to the salvation of all men, but that’s a different debate. – Luke Hill Apr 14 '22 at 14:04
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@LukeHill Or we can understand it the Catholic way (as explained by Eleonore Stump) that although God love everyone, love has to be bidirectional (need to be received). But human will is damaged, so we have a conflict within, cannot accept God's love without help. So there's a THIRD state w/ regards to God's invitation: "cease resisting", different than "receive by will" or "resist by will". God cannot force his love, but at least we can "cease resisting", enabling God pour grace so we can say "yes, I want it". Once we say yes, God will pour more and more grace so gradually our will is healed. – GratefulDisciple Apr 14 '22 at 19:37
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@GratefulDisciple that’s a very Arminian way of looking at it where the human will chooses God, and not the other way around. – Luke Hill Apr 14 '22 at 19:45
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God did predestine or designate some before the disruption of world to be holy and flawless in His sight for the the place of a son for Him Through Christ Jesus; In accord with the delight of His will. Eph:1
Being a son, ties in with His purpose in having an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up the universe in the Christ in the heavens as well as on the earth. Eph.1:10
Paul prays that the eyes of ones heart to be enlightened To perceive what is the hope of His calling. Eph. 1:18.
Which is his body , the complement which is His fullness of Him who fills all in all. Eph1:23
Those who are called will be a part of bringing the whole creation into Christ and under his headship.
God IS the savior of All men, especially those that believe.
for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of all men -- especially of those believing. 1.Tim: 4:10
Those especially that believe are those who are chosen in Christ before time, given the faith to believe what Christ has done and will be part of bringing the whole creation out of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
Christ Jesus came in the world to save sinners and in the end, all will be praising Him because He did exactly what the Father had destined Him to do! 2 Tim:2.6
Op asked; "If God is merciful and loving and decides the fate of every human, why would he send them to hell? Why doesn't he send them all to heaven since he makes that final decision?"
There will be many judgments, and His anger does not last forever. In the end all will be reconciled back to Him as scripture declares.
and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself—having made peace through the blood of His Cross—through Him, whether the things on the earth, whether the things in the heavens. Col.1:20
He's working towards a final purpose and in the end all will only not only be Christ but God all in all. 1: Cor. 15:28
That will be heaven for the entire creation, death, sin, evil, gone. Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world!
Sherrie
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I’m confused how this answers my question - are you saying that only certain people have the ability to believe? – Luke Hill Mar 13 '22 at 16:52
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Yes, faith is a gift. it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God. Eph.2:8 and because to you it was granted, on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in him, but also on behalf of him to suffer; Phil. 1:29 and The Gentiles listened with delight and extolled the Lord's Message; and all who were pre-destined to the Life of the Ages believed. Acts 13:48 Not everyone has been given the gift to believe now. – Sherrie Mar 13 '22 at 19:14
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2Okay so now I need to know. If faith is a gift and belief is a gift, why has God not given it to everyone? That’s what the question is asking. – Luke Hill Mar 13 '22 at 19:15
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Faith is the gift that goes hand-in-hand with a calling of God. These will be part of his administration in the celestial realm in the future as I touched briefly upon in my answer. – Sherrie Mar 13 '22 at 19:32
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@Sherrie I hate to be a nuisance, but you still haven’t answered my question. God is all powerful. He is sovereign. Under Calvinism, he has the ability to give who he chooses salvation. Why does he not give this gift everyone? – Luke Hill Mar 13 '22 at 20:32
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Jesus is the savior of all, especially those that believe. Those who have been chosen by God purely by His choice have a special salvation that will be for the next two eons or ages. All others will be saved each in their own order as stated in 1 Cor.15.21 for since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ the first fruits then at His coming those who belong to Him. Then the end will when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed – Sherrie Mar 14 '22 at 03:19
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He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. This includes the second death. God will bring all to a full knowledge of themselves as well as to Christ and God the Father. This is right, and is pleasing in the sight of God our Saviour, who is willing for all mankind to be saved and come to a full knowledge of the truth. For there is but one God and but one Mediator between God and men—Christ Jesus, Himself man; who gave Himself as the redemption price for all—a fact testified to at its own appointed time. 1:Tim2:3 – Sherrie Mar 14 '22 at 03:19
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@Sherrie Sigh. What does this have to do with anything. I don't need a lesson on your thoughts about salvation, I need an answer to my question. – Luke Hill Mar 14 '22 at 19:30
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I thought you meant why God chose some that would go to heaven which would equal salvation and that those He did not choose would to go to hell. In other words why did He not choose all to go to heaven. That was my understanding of the question which is why I answered the way I did… I'm not sure what your question meant then. Sorry I did not understand your question. – Sherrie Mar 14 '22 at 20:58
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@Sherrie let me explain. I am asking calvinists to reconcile two beliefs, the belief that God is completely sovereign over every man’s salvation, and that God wills that none will go to hell. Some people go to hell, so why does this happen if God is completely sovereign (no free will in terms of salvation) and wills no man to go to hell? – Luke Hill Mar 15 '22 at 02:28
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I don't see "faith" and "belief" as being the same thing. Everyone is given a measure of faith - Romans 12:3 – user22542 Apr 10 '22 at 15:27