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How is this contradiction of Joseph Smith reconciled with the Bible? I received this information from the following LDS site:

https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-21-the-gift-of-the-holy-ghost?lang=eng&abVersion=V04&abName=GLOB88

More specifically!

"A person may be temporarily guided by the Holy Ghost without receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost (see D&C 130:23). However, this guidance will not be continuous unless the person is baptized and receives the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. We read in Acts 10 that the Roman soldier Cornelius received inspiration from the Holy Ghost so that he knew the gospel of Jesus Christ was true. But Cornelius did not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost until after he was baptized. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that if Cornelius had not received baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Ghost would have left him (see Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, 97).

Today people who are not members of the Church learn by the power of the Holy Ghost that the Book of Mormon is true (see Moroni 10:4–5). But that initial testimony leaves them if they do not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. They do not receive the continuing assurance that can come to those who have the gift of the Holy Ghost."

The following is from Acts 10:44-48.

Vs44, "While Peter was still speaking these words, (The words are in the previous verse 43, "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.") the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message."

Vs45, "And all the circumcised believers who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also."

Vs46, "For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, Vs47, "Surely no one refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"

Mr. Bond
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  • can you clarify the contradiction? You seem to have done a good enough job explaining this so called contradiction. – depperm Nov 13 '21 at 19:15
  • @depperm I will, even though I believe it's pretty clear. Smith said this: "Cornelius did not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost until after he was baptized." Acts 10:45 clearly states that Cornelius/Gentiles received the gift of the HS BEFORE they were water baptized. This is brought out by Peter at vs47 where he says, "Surely no one can refuse them from getting water baptized, can he? This is a Rhetorical question in which Peter is making the point that no answer is needed. In other words, "it goes without saying." – Mr. Bond Nov 13 '21 at 19:24

2 Answers2

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OP states the LDS belief [the Holy Ghost's] guidance will not be continuous unless the person is baptized and receives the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. and Peter in Acts 10:47 says similar Surely no one can refuse them from getting water baptized, can he? so both agree the Holy Ghost leads to baptism (he wanted them baptized so that they could receive the gift of the Holy Ghost to have it with them always. He didn't say they no longer needed to be baptized).

I believe a principal from an earlier answer applies:

Since this terminology was not standardized for convenience and clarity prior to the twentieth century, readers are cautioned not to expect the early writings of the Church to always reflect this practice, which arose only decades later. Likewise, attempting to read the Bible as if its writers followed the same modern practice is anachronistic, and may lead to confusion and misinterpretation.

Peter probably referred to it as the gift of the Holy Ghost as all good gifts are from God (James 1:17) and the power of the Holy Ghost is no different than the gift of the Holy Ghost beyond time one can feel its influence.

Another biblical example to look to is found in Acts 8:12-25

depperm
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  • +1 the Holy Spirit is quite awesome. The Holy Spirit spoke a prophecy and proclaimed the Gospel through the mouth of the wicked Caiaphas, a reminder that God works in many ways one hardly expects, and He speaks through many voices one would never anticipate. ”He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation.” - John 11: 51 The Holy Spirit can operate through anyone and even pagans. – Ken Graham Nov 13 '21 at 22:04
  • @depperm Yes, you are stating Lds belief, but it's not what the Bible states. There is nothing in Acts 10:44-46 about this so-called "guidance" that your trying to apply to the text of scripture. In fact, the laying on of hands is not mentioned here. My question is simple? According to the reading of the text did Cornelius receive the gift of the Holy Spirit before he was actually water baptized or after he was baptized? Also, according to Acts 10:46 the writer of Acts says that Peter and the Jews with him heard Cornelius & his household speaking in tongues and EXALTING God. Yes or no! – Mr. Bond Nov 13 '21 at 22:48
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    @KenGraham My question has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit working or not working on Caiaphas. The question is, "did the household of Cornelius receive the gift of the Holy Spirit before or after he was water baptized?" Please stay on topic. – Mr. Bond Nov 13 '21 at 22:55
  • A fully baptized apostle speaking: Act 10:47  "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" This question deals with this. and the answers should too. – Mike Borden Nov 13 '21 at 23:34
  • @Mr.Bond you asked for LDS answer, I don't know how to answer this without giving LDS beliefs. The laying on of hands isn't mentioned here but it is in other places in the New Testament (Acts 8 for example) so we know the pattern. Cornelius felt the power of the Holy Ghost as any one can before baptism. Yes the scriptures clearly state they spoke in tongues, didn't feel this needed clarification. The power and gift of the Holy Ghost are from the same source with the same benefits, only difference is time it can be present with someone – depperm Nov 14 '21 at 00:07
  • @MikeBorden can you clarify what you feel the question addressed that I didn't? I feel like you're trying to make a contradiction that doesn't exist, or that I don't see. – depperm Nov 14 '21 at 00:08
  • Prior to their baptism, Peter, a baptized, Holy Spirit gifted apostle, speaks of the household of Cornelius as those "which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" "As well as we" has the meaning of "just like" or "according as". The distinction you draw between the guidance and the gift of the Holy Spirit does not exist in this passage. – Mike Borden Nov 14 '21 at 00:43
  • @MikeBorden it does because the power of the Holy Ghost has the same power/influence/feel as the gift of the Holy Ghost as the source is the same. Anyone can feel the power of the Holy Ghost in the same way as one with the gift of the Holy Ghost. – depperm Nov 14 '21 at 12:01
  • @depperm Do you not see that the believers were astonished (v. 45) because the gift of the Holy Ghost was poured out on them and Peter (v. 47) said they received the Holy Ghost just as we have. Perhaps the "power" of the Holy Ghost led the Centurion to call for Peter but the "gift" was clearly poured out on the Centurion's house prior to water baptism. – Mike Borden Nov 14 '21 at 12:43
  • @MikeBorden I'm not going to continuously repeat myself, read what I have previously stated. It addresses your contradiction/question – depperm Nov 14 '21 at 18:29
  • @depperm The Scripture specifically says that the gift of the Holy Ghost was poured out on them, not the power of the Holy Ghost. All you've done to address this is to say that Peter probably didn't really mean it in a specific way but, rather, if it's good it's a gift from God. – Mike Borden Nov 15 '21 at 12:39
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    @MikeBorden doesn't this address your question? what don't you understand? – depperm Nov 15 '21 at 12:47
  • @depperm I understand that dismissal of the text is your answer. – Mike Borden Nov 15 '21 at 12:59
  • @MikeBorden not necessarily a dismissal. I state the terminology may be slightly different in 2000 years, so reading an ancient text with modern meanings won't have the same result. But the core concepts haven't (anyone can feel Holy Ghost before baptism, which leads to baptism, and then gift of Holy Ghost). The other answer points out part of the confusion – depperm Nov 15 '21 at 13:07
  • @depperm *dorea" (gift): The noun δωρεα (dorea), also meaning a gift but emphasizing the nature of giving. This word describes a specifically gratis item, something we would call a donation or largesse; something that is transacted without payment due or resulting debt. In the classics this word may also describe a bounty, legacy or privilege. In the New Testament this word typically describes the famous gratuitous "gift" of the Holy Spirit. It is a different word in James 1:17. – Mike Borden Nov 16 '21 at 11:31
  • @depperm The dorea of the Holy Spirit is without payment or debt to the recipient and is, therefore, not confirmed or taken away contingent upon baptism. Gift in James is dosis juxtaposed with "dorema. Dosis* expects an intended return and dorema expresses a free gift and thus pictures, not a purchase, but a freely given reciprocal arrangement. – Mike Borden Nov 16 '21 at 11:44
  • @MikeBorden once again read the answer, Since this terminology was not standardized for convenience and clarity prior to the twentieth century, readers are cautioned not to expect the early writings of the Church to always reflect this practice, and the rest of the verses in context, ie they should get baptized... – depperm Nov 16 '21 at 12:08
  • @depperm I recognize that LDS does not have a very high view of the biblical text but Koine Greek is a very precise language and the various words that can be rendered "gift" are precisely used for precise reasons. Clarity is only regained or perceived when the precision of the text is respected. Whatever causes one to dismiss the biblical text also causes a loss of clarity. – Mike Borden Nov 16 '21 at 12:45
  • Let us continue this discussion in chat. – depperm Nov 16 '21 at 12:54
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The actual quote :

Cornelius did not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost until after he was baptized. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that if Cornelius had not received baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, the Holy Ghost would have left him

The OP's (mis)interpretation of the quote :

( Title ) Mormon prophet Joseph Smith stated one does not get the Holy Ghost until they are baptized.

( Comment ) Smith said this: "Cornelius did not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost until after he was baptized."

The OP confuses the words of the writer, which precede the quote from Smith, with Smith's actual quote, which follow after the writer's own words.

  • The writer's words are exact, if one sees both water and spirit baptism as conjointly subsumed under the term baptism.

  • Even if not, Smith's quote still holds true regardless, since, were Cornelius to have rejected either the spirit baptism, or the water baptism, or both, it would have been a rejection of God, and thus God's spirit would have eventually left or deserted him.