Is the measure word optional in 这件毛衣?

Question

I've heard the sentence 这毛衣, (so without measure word), but my chinese manual always use a measure word after 这:

这件毛衣

这件苹果

Is the measure word optionnal in after 这 ?

件 is a Unit/classifier/量詞. Sometimes it is optional, sometimes not. I have a small section about that in my other answer here. — John Siu, Jan 08 '13 at 17:25
这件苹果?? Unless you are somehow referring to a brand name? — deutschZuid, Jan 08 '13 at 20:42
@JamesJiao - Even if it is a brand name you can not use 件 there. — Derek 朕會功夫, Jan 11 '13 at 07:50
@BAK - 件 is just like in English, where you say a glass of water, a loaf of bread. You can not just say I want a water or I ate a bread, right? Same in Chinese. Sometimes you need 件/個/條, but sometimes you don't. — Derek 朕會功夫, Jan 11 '13 at 07:51

score 9 · Accepted Answer · edited Jun 17 '20 at 09:50

9

In Mandarin, especially Northern China dialects, measure words can be omitted when

It is following a demonstrative pronoun (e.g. 这, 那), AND
The numeral is 1 (one), AND
It is not a collective measure word （e.g. 些, 群).

The grammatical role of the phrase does not change. E.g.

这一件毛衣 = 这件毛衣 = 这毛衣

这一些毛衣 = 这些毛衣 collective measure word 些 cannot be omitted.

edited Jun 17 '20 at 09:50

Community

1

answered Jan 08 '13 at 20:17

NS.X.

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I have heard of 这个苹果 and 这粒苹果, but never encounter 这只苹果 when referring to an apple. Is it also part of Northern dialects? – 杨以轩 Jan 09 '13 at 02:55
@QuestionOverflow no it's not. Actually I heard this usage from people from the south. Searching 一只苹果 online there are some hits suggesting the usage does exist though may not be correct. – NS.X. Jan 09 '13 at 07:27
@QuestionOverflow As a native speaker from South China, I'd like to say I've never heard of "这粒苹果", 粒 refers to something very small(a pill, a grain of rice, etc) in general. – Huang Jan 09 '13 at 16:14
@NS.X. Actually, you can use 这件苹果 in real life where 件 means "a box or package", so 这件苹果 means “this box of apples". Can you update your answer? – Huang Jan 09 '13 at 16:16
@QuestionOverflow 粒 gives a feeling of an accent from HongKong. Where did you hear it? – Huang Jan 09 '13 at 16:20
@Huang I've removed the comment about measure word for an apple from the answer. In Beijing 这件苹果 sounds absolutely weird and people wouldn't think it's a box of apple... – NS.X. Jan 09 '13 at 20:11
I would think 这粒苹果 would be a little chunk of apple. Like if an apple exploded all over the place, you would go around picking up the 苹果, one 粒 by 粒. – Stumpy Joe Pete Jan 09 '13 at 21:52
@Huang, I hear it quite often in Singapore. A Google search on "这粒苹果" produces 212,000 results. There are people using it in Malaysia and Taiwan too though I am not too sure about its appropriateness. I am quite surprise that "这只苹果" produces even more result because I thought 只 is a 量詞 for animals or human parts. Both 粒 and 颗 refers to small objects, and 颗 is for more rounded objects. As for how small is considered small, this is quite subjective. Maybe there isn't a suitable 量詞 for 苹果 causing people to use different versions. I think the safest is still to stick with 个 :) – 杨以轩 Jan 10 '13 at 04:41
Does it also have a formal touch without the measure word? – Enrico Brasil Mar 20 '18 at 21:48
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@EnricoBrasil No it's actually less formal without measure word. – NS.X. Mar 23 '18 at 03:35

score 0 · Answer 2 · answered Jan 08 '13 at 14:27

0

“这毛衣” works, but it means "this sweater"; while "这件毛衣” means "this /measurement word in English for 件/ of sweater"; they are different grammatically. Just like: these shoes Vs. this pair of shoes

answered Jan 08 '13 at 14:27

Pip

1

Is the measure word optional in 这件毛衣?

2 Answers2