5

Take another case of a mendicant who lives close by a jungle thicket. As they do so, their mindfulness becomes established, their mind becomes immersed in samādhi, their defilements come to an end, and they arrive at the supreme sanctuary. But the necessities of life that a renunciate requires—robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medicines and supplies for the sick—are hard to come by. That mendicant should reflect: ‘While living close by this jungle thicket, my mindfulness becomes established … But the necessities of life are hard to come by. But I didn’t go forth from the lay life to homelessness for the sake of a robe, almsfood, lodgings, or medicines and supplies for the sick. Moreover, while living close by this jungle thicket, my mindfulness becomes established …’ After appraisal, that mendicant should stay in that jungle thicket; they shouldn’t leave. Take another case of a mendicant who lives close by a jungle thicket. Their mindfulness becomes established … And the necessities of life are easy to come by. That mendicant should reflect: ‘While living close by this jungle thicket, my mindfulness becomes established … And the necessities of life are easy to come by.’ That mendicant should stay in that jungle thicket for the rest of their life; they shouldn’t leave.
MN 17

Am I interpreting this correctly in saying that for an Arahant, it is forbidden for him to leave the place where he became enlightened?

Also, if so, how large is the area around this spot, where one can go to without breaking this rule?

ruben2020
  • 36,945
  • 5
  • 31
  • 94
PDT
  • 228
  • 1
  • 9

3 Answers3

1

There is no such requirement of staying in any place for an Arhant.

But the sutta you refer is specifically related to vanapattha paryaya (monastic practice). Where the Dhamma practitioner feels that s/his mindfulness becomes established, their mind becomes immersed in samādhi, their defilements comes to an end, it means the place is suitable and helpful for the person to arrive at Nirvana. Such places should not be left, as one needs every bit oh help that they can get in order to become an Arhant. If the surroundings are helping, such surroundings should not be left.

The sutta does not describe an Arhant, rather someone who is yet to obtain enlightenment.

Sampath
  • 583
  • 3
  • 10
  • 1
    As they do so, their mindfulness becomes established, their mind becomes immersed in samādhi, their defilements come to an end, and they arrive at the supreme sanctuary. – PDT Apr 22 '22 at 12:02
  • 1
    This is clearly a description of an Arahant – PDT Apr 22 '22 at 12:03
  • Please check whether it is specifically mentioned as an Arahant in the sutta. Otherwise the assumption can take you to a completely different meaning. The translation seems to be somewhat misleading in this regard. – Sampath Apr 22 '22 at 12:55
  • the sutta says: "As they do so, their mindfulness becomes established, their mind becomes immersed in samādhi, their defilements come to an end, and they arrive at the supreme sanctuary" – Dhamma Dhatu Apr 22 '22 at 13:32
  • 2
    @Dhamma Dhatu I agree with Sampath that the overall context of this Sutta make it clear that it refers to one who is still in training. It is true that parts of the particular phrase you have quoted sound like the completion of training, but the sutta makes it clear that these things are arising in dependence on the environment. Hence, it does not mean total liberation. – Jbag1212 Apr 22 '22 at 23:39
  • sorry but the sutta says: "their defilements come to an end and they arrive at the supreme sanctuary". – Dhamma Dhatu Apr 23 '22 at 10:16
  • @DhammaDhatu Please note Lord Budhdha did not preached Dhamma for Arhant. Dhamma was for those who walked the path towards Nirvana. Once you are an Arhant, you have no need for Dhamma anymore. Its like: at the destination, the map, way-points and even the road are no longer needed. That translation is poor in clarity. Don't cling to it. Read/understand the whole sutta before coming to a conclusion. – Sampath Apr 24 '22 at 07:29
  • again, u posting your own ideas. often the Buddha gave teaching to Arahant Sariputta – Dhamma Dhatu Apr 24 '22 at 08:34
  • @DhammaDhatu: In those occasions, the objective was to answer possible questions that future disciples might come across. or to address a possible unclear or untold part of Dhamma and to leave the teaching for the future disciples. There are many such Dhamma discussions like that. But what more good can Dhamma do to an Arhant? An Arhant has left even Dhamma behind. No more collecting of Dhamma even. Do you have any other logical explanation for it? – Sampath Apr 24 '22 at 09:40
0

Possibly the translation of "anubandhitabbo" is too rigid.

That mendicant should follow that person for the rest of their life. They shouldn’t leave them, even if sent away.

Tena, bhikkhave, bhikkhunā yāvajīvampi so puggalo anubandhitabbo, na pakkamitabbaṁ, api panujjamānenapī”ti.

anubandhitabba future passive participle adjective anubandhati

anubandhati present 3 singular follows; keeps close to, attends closely; pursues

While the use of anubandhitabbo appears in all other cases to refer to "physically following a person around", in MN 17 it may mean to "mentally keep close to in the heart". Therefore, for example, a monk may go wandering but always periodically return to that benefactor or forest grove, such as during the rainy season retreat.

Dhamma Dhatu
  • 41,600
  • 2
  • 31
  • 80
0

Must an Arahant stay forever in their place of enlightenment?

I think it does not fit with what we're told in many other suttas -- in that the suttas mentioned many Arahants by name, including the Buddha himself, travelling from place to place. I don't remember reading any rule like that in the Vinaya, either.

As for this sutta the word in question, which is translated "for the rest of their life", is yāvajīva (from jīva) -- and I see no hint in the online dictionaries that this word has a idiomatic or non-literal meaning.

But one thing that puts me in mind of is this episode from the Buddha's life -- Buddha meditation under the bodhi tree. That shows some movement e.g. for necessities. That's from before the Buddha's final enlightenment or becoming "unbound", i.e. it's while seeking, during the Noble Search..

And there's this version of that story -- Where is the description of the vow and the Bodhi tree? -- which (in my words) implies that the Buddha vows to stay there for the rest of his life if necessary.

The other thing is, I read the whole sutta as saying that the place doesn't matter so much, what does matter is whether the place is conducive -- i.e. it's not important whether it's in a jungle thicket or not, what's important is whether the mind becomes established -- and, especially until or before the mind becomes established, the seeker should seek and remain in a good environment which makes that possible.

Dhamma Dhatu
  • 41,600
  • 2
  • 31
  • 80
ChrisW
  • 46,455
  • 5
  • 39
  • 134
  • 'and they arrive at the supreme sanctuary'. What is this describing if not enlightenment? – PDT Apr 23 '22 at 06:03
  • I think that's describing the goal or motive, the reason why they remain somewhere; and that it's like AN 4.159, i.e. it's a description of the process by which, by doing this, someone may become enlightened. – ChrisW Apr 23 '22 at 06:09
  • I do agree that this sutta, in how I interpret is seemingly odds with the rest of the canon, maybe this rule was just laid down for a specific period of time and then later rescinded. – PDT Apr 23 '22 at 06:10
  • I guess the suttas are usually advice (about how to behave), or a statement of fact (about how the world works), or a history (of what happened) -- and the "rules" of conduct are the Vinaya. Yes I think the superficial/literal/legalist interpretation of this sutta doesn't match the rest of the canon -- so we have to discard it or (preferably) find another way to make sense of it. Often if a sutta is difficult to understand I find that one resource is Piya Tan's analysis e.g. https://www.themindingcentre.org/dharmafarer/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/52.5-Vanapattha-S-m17-piya.pdf – ChrisW Apr 23 '22 at 06:19
  • please. this is a Q & A forum rather than a Piya Tan forum. – Dhamma Dhatu Apr 23 '22 at 10:19
  • 2
    possibly the word "anubandhitabbo" should be considered. therefore, possibly it does not mean to literally physically follow the benefactor at all times but merely means to "stay close to in the heart ". therefore a monk may go wandering but always periodically return, such as during the rainy season retreat. – Dhamma Dhatu Apr 23 '22 at 10:21
  • 1
    @DhammaDhatu Possibly, eh? But I was reluctant to suggest (which seems to be a premise of the question) that an Arahant has limits -- geographical (bound to a place), personal (bound to a person), or otherwise, or conditions on which liberation depends -- and so I think the sutta is addressed to one still seeking. The only limit I'm aware of from the canon might be "seeing danger in the slightest fault". This sutta mentions "dwelling in dependence", but I'm doubtful about whether that means, "... on a lay benefactor". – ChrisW Apr 23 '22 at 10:58
  • your ideas about Arahants sounds like papanca. did Ajahn Chan wander around or did he establish a base in one place? Once I visited a small village in the middle of rubber plantations in Thailand and its small monastery has the most radiant abbot. He looked rather enlightened to me. That was his base. People could visit him there. your Western intellectualism and constant interjections in the comments section is really tedious and embarrassing for me to constantly deal with. I wonder why i bother posting here. Its pointless at times. – Dhamma Dhatu Apr 23 '22 at 11:04
  • 1
    I'm pretty sure that the suttas describe the Buddha and his Arahants moving from one place to another. – ChrisW Apr 23 '22 at 11:15