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Did Nagarjuna aspire to Buddhahood in a way that he wouldn't be a 'ariyasavaka' type of disciple who attains awakening to the truth during a Buddha's sasana?

  • Does this answer your question? Does Mahayana Buddhism discourage attaining enlightenment under the Gautama Buddha Sasana? –  May 13 '21 at 17:13
  • I guess it does but as i understand your answers, the answer is yes, Nagarjuna too would advocate foregoing the awakening to the truth in that very life under Buddha Gotama and supposedly did not attain to any Ariya stage but instead aspired to become a Buddha in some future existence. He was neither a faith-follower, nor a dhamma-follower and certainly not Sotapanna or higher. –  May 14 '21 at 09:06
  • No, my answer is the exact opposite. Nagarjuna - like all Bodhisattva's in the Mahayana path - make a vow to reach full and complete enlightenment as fast as they possibly can. That means if a Buddha was alive right now on this earth and they could possibly reach full and complete enlightenment in the next millisecond, they would do so without question forthwith. –  May 14 '21 at 12:04
  • I was confused. By enlightenment above what do you mean exactly? Canki Sutta says, 1st there is a learning, pondering & coming to agreement, then exertion and an awakening to the truth before a final attainment of the truth by development of the same qualities. Vinnana Sutta & Cakka Sutta say, a person who has faith in anatta or a modicum understanding is ensured sotapatti latest at moment of death. Why would one take a Bodhisatta vow if one is a ariyasavaka, ariyasavaka do not become Buddha as they are disciples. I like some of the things you write therefore i became curious about this. –  May 14 '21 at 13:33
  • I always write mahayana off because these kind of things but you seem to think Nagarjuna was basically a Vibbhajavadin of Mahayana and aligned with the pali texts? –  May 14 '21 at 13:35
  • I am also curious if the way you use the word Bodhisatta is a bit different than i use it. I hold that a Bodhisatta is one who actually becomes a Buddha or a Private Buddha without a teacher expounding the DO and it's implications in that life. –  May 14 '21 at 13:40
  • Cakkhu Sutta* not Cakka. Vibbhajavadin of Mahayana would be one who analyzes A contemporary tradition, generally approving of canon but also rejecting a lot of later developments like comy –  May 14 '21 at 13:43
  • I also hold that a person becomes a Bodhisatta by making the determination to forego discipleship in order to develop the perfections required to sustain Buddhahood. His determination is then known to the Buddha that had at that time opened the door to Deathless, he somehow also makes a determination in approval or whatnot and it being determined by a Buddha it becomes inevitable. As i understand it the Bodhisatta adheres to the doctrine of self until the very last birth & due development. –  May 14 '21 at 14:00
  • I think each sasana produces one Bodhisatta and there is only 1 Buddha in the world at a time; sometimes there is also a Bodhisatta; when there is no Buddha then there is always a Bodhisatta. –  May 14 '21 at 14:10
  • If my answer causes confusion perhaps open a new question to address it? The Mahayana definitely teaches that there can be more than one Bodhisattva in the world at a time and in fact each Bodhisattva in the world makes a vow to reach enlightenment as fast as possible. –  May 14 '21 at 14:15
  • Yes, for sure Nagarjuna saw zero contradiction between what he wrote and believed and the Pali canon. There is a lot of misunderstanding of Mahayana in the world. –  May 14 '21 at 14:16
  • By what law or principal do you believe there can be only one Bodhisattva in the world at a time? And what do you mean by world... a single planet? A single solar system? A single galaxy? A single universe? What would preclude two beings from being in the same world at the same time holding the Bodhisattva vow? How do you think Bodhisattva's arise? –  May 14 '21 at 14:21
  • Can you answer if you think a Mahayanin Bodhisatta can also be 'a faith-follower', 'dhamma-follower', 'one attained to view', 'a bodily witness', 'one liberated by wisdom', 'one liberated by faith' or 'one liberated in both ways' under Gotama's Dispensation? It would be sufficient to clarify the above answer for me. –  May 14 '21 at 14:21
  • Can you provide sutta(s) or reference(s) which would give def. of the above terms for what you have in mind? –  May 14 '21 at 14:22
  • I don't mind moving further discussion into chat, happy to discuss & clarify this. –  May 14 '21 at 14:22
  • Let us continue this discussion in chat. –  May 14 '21 at 14:22

1 Answers1

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In brief, the Mahayana has a specific Bodhisattva vow not to wait:

To abandon: Believing and saying that followers of the Mahayana should remain in cyclic existence and not try to attain liberation from afflictions.

Those authoritative texts in the Mahayana which seem to contradict this are only for purposes of training the mind. This is not a subject of controversy in the Mahayana as every tradition acknowledges the above.

Again, with emphasis so this is absolutely clear: All Bodhisattva's in the Mahayana path make a vow to reach full and complete enlightenment as fast as they possibly can. That means if a Buddha was alive right now on this earth and they could possibly reach full and complete enlightenment in the next millisecond, they would do so without question forthwith.

See here for the long answer.