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From a source which I don't remember any more (some rather scientific book on Buddhist philosophy) I have made a note, that the psyche in Buddhism is seen or can be seen (by certain schools?) as material.

To clarify this point for me, I wonder what the general treatment of mind and matter in Buddhism is, whether they are generally seen as two distinct spheres, how they interact, etc.

zwiebel
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  • I think this question is a reason for the Mahayana split - the belief in cittamatra - mind only. I'm not sure if you want to get into the debate, or would rather pick a school and ask based on the teachings of that school. Just a heads-up that, as it stands, you'll probably get diverse and conflicting answers, as well (hopefully) as answers that describe multiple Buddhist views on the subject. – yuttadhammo Jun 28 '14 at 11:49
  • @yuttadhammo I would definitely want to know the traditional Theravada point of view. If I get more answers accordings to different traditions, even better: then maybe these answers already outline a historical development. – zwiebel Jun 28 '14 at 16:17
  • Nowhere I have seen idea in Buddhism that psyche is material. Nama-rupa division is standard. @yuttadhammo Reason for 'Mahayana split' is just acceptance of Mahayana canon or not. There is no theoretical split, as most Mahayana schools just inherited theory (as vinayas) of early sects. And they are very different, there is no united Mahayana philosophy. Fundamental idea of Mahayana is acceptance of any and *all Buddha's teachings. That's why canon is bigger and diverse. – catpnosis Jun 28 '14 at 16:47
  • The Nama-rupa division in itself does not establish an ontological status of nama. IWC the split, there IS a theoretical split. It has been shown that the Mahayana split was foreshadowed by the Mahasanghika split which was about doctrine and nothing else. And the reason for the Mahayana canon being inflated is an ongoing production of (pseudo-)suttas in the Mahayana at a time, when Theravada-canonification was long finalized. – zwiebel Jun 28 '14 at 16:56
  • Nama-rupa is not just division, it have explanation and commentaries. Check Nina van Gorkom writings, or Visudhimagga. What you remarked about Mahayana & split is very biased, shallow, and incorrect. Actual story is much more complicated, have many interpretations and different views. – catpnosis Jun 28 '14 at 17:25
  • @catpnosis I want to see some reasoning, some arguments in what concerns the Mahayana split. If it is incorrect, biased and whatever you claim, it should be easy for you, to prove me wrong... – zwiebel Jun 28 '14 at 20:43
  • @zwiebel I could argument, but this commentary thread probably isn't appropriate place. It was good to state we have different opinions, but to argue at length would be definitely off-topic for this question. – catpnosis Jun 28 '14 at 20:49

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The Buddha of Pali Canon held an evidently pragmatic position, never explicitly defining his view as idealistic or materialistic. He does speak of "this body" as "composed of the four properties, born of mother & father, fed on rice & porridge, subject to inconstancy". He also speaks of consciousness as "dependent on body" and therefore impermanent, something a non-returner has fully realized. At the same time, for what looks like soteriological purposes, Buddha takes a fully phenomenological stance, speaking about skandhas and dhammas as constituting all of the (phenomenal) world.

After Buddha's death, this phenomenological perspective was a subject of abuse (IMHO) by generations of Abhidharmists indulging their analytical instincts. Their unchecked tendency to reify dharmas (assigning them the status of substantially existing) has led to emergence of Prajna-Paramita movement, the main point of which was assertion of philosophical relativism as fundamental principle underlying cognition. From this perspective, primacy of mind or matter is a matter of choosing a point of reference and has nothing to do with ontological state of affairs, which by its very nature is ineffable and is not subject to assertions.

In general, it looks to me like most Buddhist schools deny substantial dualism and either assert primacy of mind (Yogacara) or philosophical relativism (most of the rest of Mahayana). Theravada is a special case, torn between pragmatism and idealism, because it historically sees itself as results-oriented and not metaphysics-oriented, and at the same time carries on the legacy of Abhidharmic phenomenology. Vajrayana, being ultra-pragmatic liberation methodology, does not concern itself with such mundane affairs as mind/matter interaction, but we can say its position remains an extension of general Mahayana nondualism.

On top of this sedimentary layer of orthodox doctrines, lies a huge ocean of skilfull means, folk beliefs, and anecdotes, most of them implying naive dualism of crude matter and some kind of soul/mind substance, a perspective sharply criticised by many prominent teachers. For one example of the latter, see Dogen's "Soku Shin Ze Butsu" (Mind Here and Now Is Buddha).

Andriy Volkov
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Any mind state and / or [metal factor][2] create some sensation or the other. These sensations can have some similarities exhibited by the 4 elements like pain (feels like Earth - gross solidified), vibrations, expansion contraction, etc.

What is experienced or felt is the mind. Hence there are times you feel the mind is turning to matter and matter into mind.

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The Buddha described all of conditioned reality as nothing but the five skandhas, and subdivided those further (the experience of the body as earth element, fire element, wind.., water..). The khandhas are all of a type and are inconstant (always changing and not lasting forever), impersonal, and having the characteristic of dukkha (will cause suffering if clung to). These are the three marks of conditioned existence.

He also described the unconditioned, the unborn, the unmanifest, which cannot be perceived, conceived, or directly discussed or cognized. He was utterly a dualist. If you doubt this at all check out Buddhist scholar Ken Wheeler: https://youtu.be/FEnb2cFWKBs

That said, I would certainly not classify the dualism as mind/matter; one of the skandhas is consciousness. In my opinion, it is not rigorously, philosophically well defined as that was not his goal.

Dhamma Dhatu
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Al Brown
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  • I marked this answer down because at least the Pali suttas say the unconditioned is perceived, cognized or known. Also, Ken Wheeler is a kook and is a non-Buddhist troll who I used to debate on a certain chatsite. – Dhamma Dhatu Jul 19 '21 at 13:51
  • Thats a translation problem, it is not “perceived” as the samjna skandha of perception. Which if you think about it should be clear; the unconditioned is not a skandha. It is apprehended directly but not through samnja (perception). It is in a sense “felt” but not like the feeling skandha. There is not a good word for how it is “sensed” or known. It is beyond experience. – Al Brown Jul 19 '21 at 13:56
  • Sorry but your comment is unintelligible. If the unconditioned was not perceived by the Buddha, he could not have revealed it. The suttas literally say Nibbana is experienced. Please avoid posting unsubstantiated ideas. Thanks – Dhamma Dhatu Jul 19 '21 at 13:58
  • The unconditioned is not a skandha. Perception is a skandha. It was not perceived in that sense. QED – Al Brown Jul 19 '21 at 13:59
  • Perception is a khandha. Perception of the unconditioned does not make the unconditioned a khandha. As I commented, many times, the suttas say Nibbana is experienced. – Dhamma Dhatu Jul 19 '21 at 14:00
  • Also, there is not much point in answering questions that are 7 years old. Regards – Dhamma Dhatu Jul 19 '21 at 14:01
  • For example the arupa jhana of neither-perception-nor-nonperception (which I spend a lot of time in, it is short of nibanna) obviously cannot be said to be perceived (just look at the name). So yes I am making perfect sense just beyond you. – Al Brown Jul 19 '21 at 14:01
  • Nibbana is not neither-perception-nor-nonperception nor cessation of perception & feeling. Your comment is 100% irrelevant. The suttas say countless times Nibbana is experienced. – Dhamma Dhatu Jul 19 '21 at 14:02
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    Hi Al, welcome to the site. I thought I could mention, that you can address (reply to) comments if you find that helpful -- but that if you don't you can also ignore a comment, or flag it for moderators' attention. – ChrisW Jul 19 '21 at 16:13
  • @Dhammadhatu Apologies for rudeness. Ok We can disagree. Suttas never say nibanna is an object of perception (samjna). You may find a translation using the english “perceive” but thats not the best translation, because it will not be a form of the pali word samnja. Nibanna is not one of the skandhas nor “an object” of one of the skandhas. In neither-perception-nor-non, the meditator is neither perceiving nor non-perceiving, yet he knows he is in the state. We could say there is no object or that the object is mind (cit), but not “a state of mind” (as with a brahmavihara as object etc). – Al Brown Jul 21 '21 at 16:48
  • @ChrisW Thanks I appreciate the way you did that. Yes I had realized I was being very silly. In fact I had the thought, “So we learn and meditate in order to become profound and right on the Internet to nameless people? Not to learn how to let stuff go and reduce suffering?” Lol. – Al Brown Jul 21 '21 at 16:52