Is homosexuality a sin?

Question

"Homosexuality" is a hot topic everywhere in the world now. But is it a sin according to Buddhism? Does it cause a breaking of the third precept? I have heard in a sermon that people are born gay because of breaking the third precept severely in previous births and people are born as females for also breaking the third precept (not as severely I suppose). I know that where I come from if the government accepts gay marriages the monks will be the first to protest even before the church does! Is it because it is a sin? (PS: I am totally fine with someone being gay)

Isn't this question a duplicate of What is the attitude toward homosexuality in Buddhism? — ChrisW, Feb 18 '16 at 09:34

score 12 · Answer 1 · answered Feb 18 '16 at 14:26

It is not a sin.

Lust is born out of desire. Desire is one of the root defilements (kilesas). It can manifest itself in different ways, e.g. sexual preference, body type preferences etc.

Lust is still lust, no matter what object its involved with.

score 8 · Answer 2 · answered Mar 04 '16 at 10:12

I'm shocked at some of the responses here - to try to twist the precepts of Buddhism to condemn something that one finds personally abhorrent is counter to everything The Buddha taught.

Yes, allowing lust to dominate your thoughts is counter to the path of enlightenment but the question was that of homosexuality - not sex. Those that are quick to condemn homosexuality are perhaps tainted by cultural or prior religious indoctrination and should look at heterosexual practices that seem to be accepted all too readily.

I have never seen anything in Buddhist teachings that forbids a man to find companionship with another man or likewise between two women.

I would suggest that as long as any relationship is based upon loving kindness and continual compassion towards the other person, it is not forbidden.

Of course I could be wrong. :)

I agree - although monks are not permitted relationships with the opposite gender either. — Phil, Mar 04 '16 at 23:56

score 6 · Answer 3 · answered Feb 18 '16 at 23:33

it's not a sin for the simple reason that a concept of sin is alien to the Dhamma, if anything it would be an unskillful, impure act

on the basis of sexual misconduct description from the Nikayas it's impossible to construe that being homosexual or engaging in homosexual sex per se is a violation of the precept

He engages in sensual misconduct. He gets sexually involved with those who are protected by their mothers, their fathers, their brothers, their sisters, their relatives, or their Dhamma; those with husbands, those who entail punishments, or even those crowned with flowers by another man.

Cunda sutta (AN 10.176) but it's a stock passage found elsewhere across the four NIkayas

score 4 · Answer 4 · edited Jun 17 '20 at 09:56

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1st of all Buddhism does not prohibit or have anything against being gay. But Hethorosexuality is unwholsome as it is rooted in desire, though lay people may engage in such activities, within Sila. Homosexuality activity needs to have stronger attraction than is Hethorosexual avtivity, which is more unwholsome. When engaging in any sexsual activity if compaired to a fall, Hetrosexuality say is a 3 foot fall, hence you get hurt in the long run less, Homosexuality is a 6 foot fall, which you you are likely to get more hurt by this in the long run than Hethorosexuality, as weight of attaction is stronger between partners. Incest is more grave like say a 9 foot fall. There will be future society when this also may become accepted, according to the quote below. In each case the attachment is relative. Also historically hetrosexsual people have been less liberal, but current liberal practices have more attachment than in the past so more unwholesome mind moments.

Any form of sexual attraction including being gay is based on desire which is unwholesome and result experiences which are painful in the future. Buddhism deals with correcting your mental tendencies by getting rid of the roots which creates misery. This is done through practicing Vipassana and is a gradual process. Through Vipassana you can transcend any sexual preferences and orientation. To get more insights into this it is best you take a course at: https://www.dhamma.org or http://www.internationalmeditationcentre.org/

See: Saññoga Sutta

According to the Dīgha Commentary, here “abnormal lust” (adhamma,raga) refers to incest, that is, “lust between mother and mother’s sister and father’s sister and maternal uncle’s wife and other such improper situations” (mata matuccha pituccha matulanī ti adike ayutta-t,thane rago); “neurotic desire” (visama,lobha) refers to excessive greed by way of consuming things (paribhoga,yuttesu pi thanesu atibalava,lobho, in other words, excessive materialism and consumerism); and “deviant practices” (miccha,dhamma) refer to sexuality “between men and men, women with women.” (DA 3:853)

Homosexuality is a deviant practice (miccha,dhamma). This is rooted in excessive lust.

Now, bhikshus, amongst those humans whose life-span was 500 years, three things were widespread,

that is, abnormal lust, excessive desire and deviant conduct.

With the increase of abnormal lust, excessive desire and deviant conduct,

the life-span of beings declined, their beauty declined, too.

For these humans whose life-span and beauty were declining, whose lifespan was 500 years, that of some of their children was 250 years, and some 200 years.

More lust in deviant practices is worse off that non deviant pratice like hetrosexuality, which in some cases in the past may have been less rooted in desire, but both are rooted in unwholesomeness.

See: Cakka,vatti Siha,nāda Sutta

Sin is violation of God's will or religious ideal. In Buddhism there is no concept of God's will but with respect to ideal we can consider anything creating unwholesome fabrications as a sin then it will be. Sila general deals with more stronger Karma with can influence rebirth. In this context it is not clear cut but still in contravention of the religious ideal as homosexuality is considered a deviant practice.

edited Jun 17 '20 at 09:56

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answered Feb 18 '16 at 04:43

Suminda Sirinath S. Dharmasena

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Yes I agree but what I am asking is whether that act alone is a sin. Like robbing, lying – Heisenberg Feb 18 '16 at 05:05
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Updated. See if this answers your question. – Suminda Sirinath S. Dharmasena Feb 18 '16 at 05:17
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Thanks for the additional info. But having lust is not a sin but a root cause. For example I have a wife and the lust and sexual relationship with her cannot be a sin. If I have the same sexual relationship outside the marriage it is a sin. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think what you are saying is that being gay makes a person more inclined to sin but the act alone is not a sin? – Heisenberg Feb 18 '16 at 05:34
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It's like playing violent video games. It makes your mind more crueler and it may lead you to commit violent and sinful acts. But the act of playing the video game by itself is not a sin – Heisenberg Feb 18 '16 at 05:38
The word sin originated and derives its present meaning from a non Buddhist context. In Buddhism one division of Karma is Karma which can cause rebirth (planning to kill and follow through) and which cannot (could not follow though for some reason). If you consider sin being Fabrication with the strength or rebirth then perhaps this might not be a sin if there is no cheating and there is fidelity. But again this is hard for me to ascertain with the level of knowledge and insight I have. – Suminda Sirinath S. Dharmasena Feb 18 '16 at 05:39
Playing video games is a sin but may not be a grave sin. Some of the violent thoughts itself is a mental sin. – Suminda Sirinath S. Dharmasena Feb 18 '16 at 05:41
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Thanks. Your last comment just made me think of a very interesting question which I will post soon! – Heisenberg Feb 18 '16 at 05:42
BS. If one is operating from a position of essence there is nothing to stick to. You can do any act through the application of selfless intent and generate no karmic residue. Following dogmatic beliefs is like driving blindfolded, whereas operating from source is taking the blindfold off and knowing right then and there. – Cameron Feb 18 '16 at 23:20
maybe it's deviant, only that the quoted passage says nothing to the effect, so it's only a speculation – Баян Купи-ка Feb 18 '16 at 23:37
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Where does it specifically say that 'Homosexuality is a deviant practice'? – Kaveenga Wijayasekara Feb 18 '16 at 23:45
Your link to Piya Tan's commentary is most useful. Sadhu for sharing. – Kaveenga Wijayasekara Feb 19 '16 at 00:42
It is in the references I provided. – Suminda Sirinath S. Dharmasena Feb 19 '16 at 01:45
@KaveengaWijayasekara “deviant conduct” (miccha,dhamma) as homosexuality, ie, sex “between men and men, women with women.” – Suminda Sirinath S. Dharmasena Feb 19 '16 at 17:07
This is not in the suttas. However, we have deviant sexual conduct defined as incest. – Kaveenga Wijayasekara Feb 20 '16 at 11:24
No abnormal lust (adhamma,raga) is incest. Deviant sex is homosesuality according to cometery. – Suminda Sirinath S. Dharmasena Feb 20 '16 at 13:36
I think we agree that it is defined in the commentaries and not directly in the suttas. Would you agree that a person in a committed monogamous homosexual relationship, would be preferred to a promiscuous heterosexual? – Kaveenga Wijayasekara Feb 22 '16 at 06:59
Being promiscuous you are breaking a precept which is worse off than being gay. Being in a faithful relationship with worse off than being celibate. This will further worsen there things like BDSM, abnormal fetishers will become more widespread and socially acceptable and then finally incest also will become socially acceptable in some future period. All this is relative. – Suminda Sirinath S. Dharmasena Feb 22 '16 at 12:13
For householders sex is wholesome provided you are in a loving relationship. Incest or not is not the issue. First few humans were incest that is the reason we are all here. If one is not satisfied by his or her spouse he/she will resort to extra marital sex and that is not sin. Denial of sex itself is unwholesome. Please read about Freud who has attributed all mental disorders to unsatisfied libido. Buddha did not say anything explicitly about sex for householders. Until and unless one is enlightened it will be very much part of our lives whether we accept it or not. – Shashank Khare Mar 10 '16 at 07:13
East is hypocritical about sex and West is obsessed with sex. It is high time we change our attitude and take it as a Nature gift and use it carefully and beautifully. No one throws gifts away. Certainly not me. – Shashank Khare Mar 10 '16 at 07:16
the word 'sin' means to 'miss the mark' thus similar to the Pali 'akusala' or 'unskillful'. that is why Christians confess 'sins' & Buddhists confess 'transgressions'. 'sin' & 'transgression' is the same & thus exist in Buddhism – Dhamma Dhatu Jun 27 '16 at 01:20
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This is more-or-less a copy of another answer, and this answer too has been flagged as offensive. Please see my comment here. – ChrisW Apr 30 '17 at 17:00

MischievousSage · Answer 5 · 2016-03-10T01:38:58.313

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Monks were expelled for homosexual activity, both heterosexual and homosexual activity is not allowed for monks and nuns.

So it is considered as sinful or harmful.

"At that time the venerable Upananda, of the Sakya tribe, had two novices, Kandaka and Mahaka; these committed sodomy with each other. The Bhikkhus were annoyed, &c.: 'How can novices abandon themselves to such bad conduct?'

They told this thing to the Lord Buddha, &c.

'Let no one, O Bhikkhus(Monks), ordain two novices. He who does, is guilty of a dukkata offence.'" - (Mahavogga, 1.52)

Homosexuals aren't allowed to be monks, neither are those who practice heterosexual activity.

"Now, what is the taking on of a practice that is pleasant in the present but yields pain in the future? There are some brahmans & contemplatives who hold to a doctrine, a view like this: 'There is no harm in sensual pleasures.' Thus they meet with their downfall through sensual pleasures. They consort with women wanderers who wear their hair coiled in a topknot.

"The thought occurs to them: 'Now what future danger concerning sensual pleasures do those [other] brahmans & contemplatives foresee that they have spoken of the relinquishment of sensual pleasures and describe the full comprehension of sensual pleasures? It's pleasant, the touch of this woman wanderer's soft, tender, downy arm.'" - Cula-dhammasamadana Sutta

edited Mar 10 '16 at 01:38

answered Mar 03 '16 at 07:08

MischievousSage

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The logic in your opening paragraph says that "it (homosexuality) is sinful" -- but really I think it's that "sexual activity of any kind (whether hetero-, homo-, or mono-) is incompatible with the monks' rules and ideals." – ChrisW Mar 03 '16 at 10:25
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I agree, but if it's sinful for monks it's sinful in general for all as well.
Monks have to follow strict rules to make enlightenment easier.

Lay followers don't follow the rules of a monk, but the things considered harmful for monks in general is also harmful for all.
– MischievousSage Mar 10 '16 at 01:37
Sin a Christian concept. There is no sin in Buddhism. There is code of conduct for Monks but not for householders regarding sex. Where did Gautam Buddha speak about sex as harmful thing? Over-indulgence is harmful but attending to Nature's call is essential. For example when there is urge to urinate one has to urinate. If one does not then there are repercussion on health. Similarly sexual urges need to be satisfied otherwise it will create physical and mental disorders. Please read Freud about it. Freud attributed all mental disorders to libido. – Shashank Khare Mar 10 '16 at 06:59
So it's "sinful" for lay people to work for a living, buy food, be in a room alone with a member of the opposite sex, eat after noon, handle money, own things, etc.? I think that morality for lay people is more usually described as the five or ten precepts (the third precept defines sexual misconduct). – ChrisW Mar 10 '16 at 11:17
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@ShashankKhare I think it's just semantics to differentiate between "evil deeds", "sins", etc....many times Gautama Buddha spoke of sex as a harmful thing that causes bad things to happen. Your reasoning or point of view is nearly exactly what was described in the Cula-dhammasamadana Sutta (believing there is no harm in sensual pleasures).
It is very difficult for many people to understand but I finally understood what he was talking about, but I don't want to talk about it.
– MischievousSage Mar 23 '16 at 01:59
@ChrisW monks followed certain rules to make enlightenment in this lifetime easier. But certain deeds lead directly towards bad things happening and one of these deeds is sexual activity. This however doesn't mean that all people who indulge in sexual activity will go to a bad destination. – MischievousSage Mar 23 '16 at 02:06
How many times did Buddha talk about sex as something which causes bad things to happen for householders? Can you give references? Sex is a natural phenomenon but with humans it is no more because of excessive lust. But if there is no "excess" it is wholesome. Meditation corrects the excess part. But if you are saying meditation will cool your senses down to zero, you have misunderstood. If body heat goes down to zero one dies. So till time you are alive, you are sexual by nature. But yes enlightenment takes away the hankering part. – Shashank Khare Mar 24 '16 at 13:13
@ShashankKhare of course everywhere sex is considered something harmful to the Buddha. It is difficult to understand, perhaps you should just get married to one wife to avoid sexual immorality. – MischievousSage Mar 26 '16 at 15:36
Morality is not part of Buddhism. There is nothing called sexual immorality. Its a Christian concept. – Shashank Khare Mar 28 '16 at 08:02
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@ShashankKhare your mind is obviously attached to and clung onto hating Christianity or dividing yourself away from Christianity, why talk to such a foolish human? Sexual activity being viewed as immoral is something found is many religions besides Christianity. What is difference between saying "a harmful deed" vs. "a sin"....the difference is small and subtle. Neither heterosexual nor homosexual activity leads towards enlightenment. Do you think that by engaging in heterosexual or homosexual activity you'll become an arahant? – MischievousSage Apr 25 '16 at 20:53
Well you are not aware of tantric traditions of India. In Tantra sex is used as a path to enlightenment. But its practice is limited because of inherent dangers. Please understand sex is called sinful in almost all religion because people are afraid of tackling it. I am not against Christianity. I am against all people who have myopic view of teachings of great masters including Jesus and Buddha. If Buddha talked abour sexual conduct of monk please limit it to monks. Why are you guys attempting to extend it to householders? Do not reinterpret Buddha. – Shashank Khare Apr 26 '16 at 02:38
@ShashankKhare well from my own personal observations it may be possible to avoid the unperceived pains of sexual activity but only if you have a well-developed body and mind...nearly exactly as The Buddha says in the Lonaphala Sutta, but overall in my opinion it is pointless to debate certain morals like this, it is much more important to develop concentration and destroy unconscious painful feelings and insecurities so that eventually one becomes an arahant or paccekabuddha...monks are also not allowed to do things like singing, dancing, watching shows, etc..but once the goal is achieved IDK – MischievousSage Aug 09 '16 at 02:59
If sex is natural there is no pain. Most of the sex is due to cravings in the mind not in the body. Your personal observation is biased against it because sex causes imbalance (commonly felt and pretty much part of traditional medicine texts such as Ayurveda and Traditional Chinese Medicine). If you know how to balance yourself the repercussions of sex can be avoided to large extent. What i am saying is simple. If you crush your bodily urges through repression it will dull your senses and chances of enlightenment will diminish. – Shashank Khare Aug 11 '16 at 03:26
I marked this answer down because it is obviously wrong. – Dhamma Dhatu Oct 14 '19 at 10:17
@Dhammadhatu well why do you think it's wrong for? Maybe for the lay people homosexuality is not sinful just sexual misconduct is sinful but for monks homosexuality is definitely sinful as well heterosexuality and many other things – MischievousSage Oct 14 '19 at 14:01
You already know the sinfulness you wrote in your answer. Eating food after noon is also a "sin" for monks. But you know it is not a "sin" for laypeople. Similarly, homosexuality is not a "sin" for laypeople. Yet you sinfully wrote the give the impression "homosexuality is a sin for all people". Obviously, you have personally slandered the Dhamma-Vinaya to gratify your own personal prejudices against homosexuality. – Dhamma Dhatu Oct 14 '19 at 20:08
Sure I understand but the goal of a monk or nun is to achieve arahantship here and now whereas for the lay people achieving arahantship is really difficult. It's still implied that heterosexuality and homosexuality is a sin at least for monks. I do not have prejudices against homosexuality I spoke out against heterosexuality in other posts and never mentioned anything against homosexuals before.
Both heterosexual and homosexual activity don't lead towards arahantship.
– MischievousSage Oct 27 '19 at 23:52

score 1 · Answer 6 · answered Jun 27 '16 at 00:49

Shashank, There is no such thing as "sin" in Buddhism. Karma, yes, but not sin. Although, it is a rule for monks to avoid sexual relations, it does not apply to the laity. However, it seems to me that meditation will diminish sexual appetite regardless of monk or lay person. In the mean time, it is good to control sexual desire as there is a proper place, a proper time, and proper partner. It is kind of vague what the last one means, but at least it forbids adultery. As for being genetic, the latest and most extensive scientific studies I have seen suggest that homosexuality is NOT genetic.

Dhamma Dhatu · Answer 7 · 2016-06-27T02:19:12.957

The Pali suttas are silent on the matter of homosexuality. The matter of homosexuality is only mentioned in the monk's Vinaya, where certain types of ex-homosexuals (but not all) are forbidden from ordaining as a monk.

Further, homosexuality does not fall into the definition of 'sexual misconduct', which essentially is having sex with individuals who are in existing relationships (such as having sex with another person's husband or wife or with a child/teenager still living in the care of their parents).

It follows homosexuality itself is not a 'sin' or 'transgression' in original Buddhism.

He Cheng-xuan · Answer 8 · 2017-04-30T17:34:53.427

I can not comment, so I will post here.

"Miccha dhamma" is never about homosexuality. The comment of the Cakkavattisuttaṃ (DN 26) is wrong.

The word "miccha dhamma" and other two words are also appear in the Palokasuttaṃ (AN.3.56), and no comment about homosexuality here (as far as I know).

Obviously, "miccha dhamma" just means any wrong doctrines or something away from sammā (involving greed to others' belongings or possessions) which happening in natural and man-made disasters, not some specific action.

The three words (adhamma-rāga), (visama-lobha), (miccha dhamma) have the similar meaning. The meaning of rāga is similar to lobha, and the meaning of visama is similar to adhamma & miccha dhamma. So, it does not mean some specific action, and the three words are just some ancient pali collocations.

That wrong comment just came from some medieval homophobic buddhists like any homophobic Buddhists in the Modern times, whether he is living in Sri Lanka or not, whether where he living colonized by Britain's CHRISTIAN CUSTOM or not.

Non-majority is not deviant practice, as left-handers are not. However discrimination against minority is deviant practice, so anyone does so is deviant.

And I must say if homosexuality involving any of this, then Buddha would say more in other suttas, not just appearing in the mouth of some medieval homophobic commentators and their homophobic followers.

The comment of Palokasuttaṃ (AN.3.56) also mentioned (adhamma-rāga), (visama-lobha), (miccha dhamma), but it does not mention anything about homosexuality. You can see：" Micchādhammaparetāti avatthupaṭisevanasaṅkhātena micchādhammena samannāgatā. Devo na sammā dhāraṃ anuppavecchatīti vassitabbayutte kāle vassaṃ na vassati. Dubbhikkhanti dullabhabhikkhaṃ. "

Another Buddhism scripture《大薩遮尼乾子所說經》（Bodhisattvagocaropāyaviṣayavikurvāṇanirdeśa) also mentioned that the miccha dhamma is about learning Tirthika's doctrine. (於諸外道非義論中起義論想。於無益論生利益想。於非法中生是法想。於末世時。非是智者所作論中。以為正論。生於信心。熏修邪見。以為福德。是名邪法羅網纏心)

This [Tirthika's doctrine] is the correct meaning of the DA 26 "Miccha dhamma", not the ridiculous, discriminative explanation and its bigot speaker.

The Counterfeit of the True Dhamma（SN 16.13） said：「when a counterfeit of the true Dhamma arises in the world, then the true Dhamma disappears.」.

Those homophobic followers let a counterfeit of the true Dhamma arises, as they wrongly explain DA 26.

score 0 · Answer 9 · answered Mar 04 '16 at 05:51

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After Budhha Siddharta Gotama had not teached about a GOD/the abrahamitic GOD, how can something be a "sin" in buddhism?

answered Mar 04 '16 at 05:51

Gottfried Helms

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score -2 · Answer 10 · answered Mar 04 '16 at 01:57

Sex is not sin. Only for monks its forbidden. Householders are supposed to have sex irrespevtive of body type. Homosexuality is a byproduct of unnatural living. Scientists claim its genetic. Religion says its because of unnatural living these defects are creeping in. Also it might be due to unnatural lifestyle. Therefore lifestyle correction which includes meditation is required. If homosexuality is lifestyle induced it will go sway on its own. Still my answer is it is not sin at all. Its just a choice.

Is homosexuality a sin?

10 Answers10