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The party is looking at facing Tiamat as the 20th-level epic boss fight that will end the campaign. The evoker has only four spell slots that can directly affect her, due to her limited magic immunity, so has to choose well.

He is considering Arcane Hand, which when upcast has good damage output, considering her immunity to most of his damage types and her legendary saves. However, the Hand, as an object, automatically fails Dex saves and so will go down pretty quickly to fire, lightning, and acid breath. The Hand, as an object, is immune to poison.

I was confused about her cold breath. White dragon cold breath is a Con save; Con is a pretty standard save against cold damage (cf. Cone of Cold, Freezing Sphere). As an object, the Hand would also be immune to damage that came with a Con save. But the statblock I have for Tiamat in Roll20 says that her white head's cold breath causes a Dex save. I don't have access to the print copy of Rise of Tiamat.

Is the Roll20 cold breath correct, or in error? If her printed statblock actually does call for a Dex save, is there any precedent for that - perhaps in previous editions, or any official reason why it would be different from white dragon breath?

Matswecja's answer resolved my wizard's decision by pointing out that dragon breath, including Tiamat's, as written can damage only creatures, not objects. However, it does not explain why Tiamat's cold breath works differently from a white dragon's. I am still seeking an explanation for this - it could be a legacy of her stats in previous editions, a deliberate change signaled somewhere, or simply an error in editing.

Kirt
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  • Just wondering(mainly because I don't have her stats): does Tiamat have a head with every kind of breath weapon? – TieflingDragon84 May 11 '23 at 01:21
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    Is this title a spoiler? Currently playing through Rise of Tiamat so maybe I should stay out of this question altogether. – FerventHippo May 11 '23 at 07:05
  • @FerventHippo Yes, it contains spoilers for the end of that campaign – Jorn May 11 '23 at 07:07
  • I can't think of a good way of de-spoilering the title without making it too vague, maybe someone with experience with the adventure can consider this. – FerventHippo May 11 '23 at 07:13
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    @FerventHippo honestly, Tiamat's depicted on the cover of the book, her holy symbol includes 5 chromatic dragon heads, and I'd consider this a general knowledge, other than slight mechanical spoiler for which specific save is called for. – matszwecja May 11 '23 at 07:25
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    @FerventHippo I've edited the title to remove the specific save. Hopefully it is not a spoiler, after 48 years and six editions of representations, that she has a cold breath. – Kirt May 11 '23 at 07:28
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    @TieflingDragon84 Not every kind, but every kind of the chromatic dragons. – Kirt May 11 '23 at 07:31
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    @Trish I still would like to know why the ability score save for the cold breath is Dex for Tiamat vs Con for a white dragon, and if this is a legacy of other editions, a deliberate change for 5e, or an editing mistake. Changing the title as you did makes the question unlikely to attract the answer I am looking for. Matszecja's answer has solved my problem of what to do in the specific adventure, but it has not answered my question. – Kirt May 11 '23 at 14:49
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    If your question was really about the designer-reasons, then that should have been the focus. This is a good example of why one question per question is helpful. – NotArch May 11 '23 at 19:21
  • @NautArch I thought I had one question. I was not asking how the dragon breath affected arcane hand - I thought I understood it and was only offering it is the background reason/ justification for my question. As it turns out, I did not understand how the hand was affected by the breath, but that was my own error, not a deliberate question. – Kirt May 12 '23 at 07:01
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    Your second to last paragraph is asking if it's correct or not. It also asks if there is lore behind the history of the breath weapon. And finally it asks if there are designer reasons for the save choice. That's three questions. – NotArch May 12 '23 at 13:03
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    I read it as a single question that calls for an explanation/support of the answer that is likely to touch on at least one or other of the possibilities mentioned. – Ty Hayes May 12 '23 at 16:27
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    My intent was to ask the question about why the save was different, and offer lore and designer reasons as possible answers rather than questions in their own right. – Kirt May 13 '23 at 04:31

1 Answers1

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Yes, the statblock for Tiamat calls for Dex save.

However, both existing statblocks of Tiamat specifically call for creatures to make a saving throw. This means that, as a baseline, Arcane Hand would be unaffected by any of them.

matszwecja
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    Alternatively, objects could be automatically affected by them with no save allowed. – GreySage May 10 '23 at 16:21
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    @GreySage is there a general rule about that? Or is that a suggested house rule? – NotArch May 10 '23 at 17:39
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    Thank you, I hadn't considered that - and it does appear consistent with dragon breath in general that it does not affect objects (which I had not noticed). While it solves my problem, this does not fully answer my question - is there any source that explains why Tiamat's white dragon breath calls for a different save than a white dragon's? Also, when you say "both existing statblocks of Tiamat" do you mean both the print and roll20 versions of Rise of Tiamat? – Kirt May 10 '23 at 18:51
  • @Kirt In Fizban's Treasury of Dragons there's a statblock for Aspect of Tiamat, which is a bit different from what is presented in RoT – matszwecja May 11 '23 at 07:06
  • @matszwecja I do have that, in print. I was just attempting to understand what you meant by "both existing statblocks". Are you saying you meant RoT and Fizzban's? – Kirt May 11 '23 at 07:22
  • @Kirt yes, these 2 are noticeably different statblocks. – matszwecja May 11 '23 at 07:23
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    @matszwecja They are two different creatures, not two different stat blocks of the same creature. In RoT it is a Fiend, whilst in FToD it is a dragon. – Eddymage May 11 '23 at 07:36
  • One is an aspect, the other is not, but calling them 2 different creatures is way too much of a stretch, imho. – matszwecja May 11 '23 at 07:43
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    No, they are two different creatures, both for the statblock and for the description. The aspect is a sort of avatar of the fiend. – Eddymage May 11 '23 at 07:55
  • @Eddymage plus, there's other editions that have her stats. – Trish May 11 '23 at 09:00