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Western media is constantly reporting casualty figures from the Gaza ministry of health. However the ministry is fully controlled by Hamas and cannot be considered impartial. So why are the casualty numbers taken at face value rather than being questioned?

I understand why non-Western media happily reports Hamas-sourced numbers but Western media likewise seems to trust the "health ministry".

Timur Shtatland
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JonathanReez
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    Not sure what this question is aiming at. Hopefully the reports make clear that these are only claims. The true number of casualties could be different. But you still have to report the claims. – NoDataDumpNoContribution Nov 14 '23 at 06:26
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    Citation for the claim that they're constantly taken at face value? There seems plenty of evidence that they are not. Otherwise this should be closed as based on a false premise. – Stuart F Nov 15 '23 at 11:55
  • Where have you heard, read or seen such statements taken without salt? I haven't… – Robbie Goodwin Nov 17 '23 at 00:29

4 Answers4

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First of all, I think "taken without a grain of salt" is exaggerating the confidence with which those numbers are reported. Usually, reliable media seems to point out that the numbers have not been independently verified. "Trustworthy enough that that the numbers are worth reporting rather than ignoring" would probably fit better.

When it comes to the question of whether it is better to report only somewhat trustworthy data rather than nothing at all, it is important to note that just as over-reporting inflated casualty numbers might lead to oversized outrage, not reporting on casualties can lead to unjustified apathy. Journalists have to find a balancing act here.

When it comes to the specifics of the situation, the Guardian article linked by James K in the comments addressed them:

  1. This is not the first time that the Gaza Health Ministry is reporting casualty figures from Israeli attacks, and in the past there has been no evidence of clear data fabrication from their side.
  2. They report detailed casualty lists with names, etc., rather than just total numbers. If they either invented people or claimed living people to be dead, they'd likely be found out (connected back to Item 1). Relatedly (and not from the article): The casualty lists are communicated to the Gazan people just as much as to foreign reporters, which drastically impacts the incentive-calculus for lying.
  3. To the limited extent that third-party information is available, it seems to be consistent with those reports.
V2Blast
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Arno
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    OTOH Hamas may be more incentivized to exaggerate this time https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/56206/are-the-death-toll-numbers-from-gazas-health-ministry-reliable – the gods from engineering Nov 13 '23 at 23:33
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    We have clear evidence of over-reporting from just a month ago. When Hamas still accused Israel of bombing the Al-Ahli hospital, they reported 471 dead, while at the time the operators of the hospital said 200, the director said 250, US intel sources said 100-300. With hindsight, the NYT now estimates the number at 100 and says Hamas has "deliberately disseminated misleading information". Hamas inflated the numbers by a factor of almost 5. – tim Nov 14 '23 at 07:30
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    Based on the daily reports, I also assume that the hospital bombing is still a part of the Hamas-reported numbers (despite the numbers being 5x too high & the fact that it was PIJ who bombed the hospital). As far as the list of names goes, the WP acknowledges that it can't verify those. They are essentially meaningless. – tim Nov 14 '23 at 07:42
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    @tim Israel also down-adjusted the casualty numbers for the Hamas attacks. Over-reporting may be intentional, but doesn't have to be. – gerrit Nov 14 '23 at 09:34
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    @gerrit they did, after further investigations has revealed that around 200 unidentified casualties are now believed to be Hamas fighters. They didn't initially over-estimate by a factor of 5 & corrected based on new info. Did Hamas correct their numbers after they were shown to be false (or as the NYT puts it "deliberately disseminated misleading information")? – tim Nov 14 '23 at 09:39
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    @tim I don't know if either the Gaza health ministry or Hamas corrected any numbers. – gerrit Nov 14 '23 at 09:40
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    Are any Israeli government officials denying about the death tolls ? The numbers seems to be in agreement from the official sides of both. – An_Elephant Nov 14 '23 at 13:06
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    @tim they also lied about it being a hospital that was damaged. It was actually a parking lot. – JonathanReez Nov 14 '23 at 18:44
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    @JonathanReez: well, the nearby building were lightly damaged. Missing roof tiles, broken windows and the like. https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/DC9C/production/_131467465_crater1-nc.png.webp – the gods from engineering Nov 14 '23 at 21:14
  • @tim Why not put that as answer? While I am not sure about the overall numbers changing that much, I can definitely get behind the hospital numbers apparently having been inflated, at least initially. Whether PIJ caused hit the hospital or the IDF did. – Italian Philosophers 4 Monica Nov 14 '23 at 21:52
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    @ItalianPhilosophers4Monica because it's just one part of an answer & doesn't directly answer why news org still report the numbers as facts. I've added an answer trying to cover that as well though. – tim Nov 15 '23 at 07:58
  • @tim The article touches on that, estimates in the immediate aftermath of a strike are inherently less reliable than the numbers gathered from data afterwards. – Princess Ada Nov 15 '23 at 10:13
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    @JonathanReez the parking lot of a hospital, where thousands were sheltering in an attempt to avoid airstrikes. – llama Nov 16 '23 at 17:40
  • This CBC article has a summary of Gaza health ministry numbers vs UN reports, showing a very slight overestimate by the GHM relative to the UN numbers https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-death-toll-records-1.7010255 – llama Nov 16 '23 at 17:41
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    @llama still a lie. Lots of people were sheltering everywhere. The hospital lie was specifically targeted to incite drama in the media. – JonathanReez Nov 16 '23 at 18:16
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    @JonathanReez oh heaven forbid there be "drama" in the media, what a horrible crime. They specifically went to hospitals to shelter because they assumed they would not be bombed. Thankfully they've bombed plenty of ambulances and other hospitals in the period since then to remove any doubt that they would do such a thing, for those among us who view bombing a crowded hospital parking lot as qualitatively completely different than bombing a hospital – llama Nov 16 '23 at 20:27
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While Hamas may or may not be exaggerating, news agencies like the BBC and organizations like the UN also report on casualties affecting their personnel and affiliates, as well as those people's families and it doesn't look all that great there either.

UN is at 101 KIA from its staff so far.

From the hustle and bustle of New York City to the edge of the Karura Forest in Kenya’s capital, Nairobi, offices across the global UN system paid tribute on Monday to the 101 staff killed so far during the war raging in Gaza – the largest loss during a conflict in the Organization’s 78-year history.

UN has 10K staff in Gaza so that's a 1% death rate.

The number of area staff range from nearly 3,000 in the Lebanon Field Office to over 10,000 in the Gaza Field Office with the other three Field Offices falling in between those numbers.

So 10K civilian dead out of 2M is not unbelievable. The UN staff may be more exposed, staying to help near combat areas, than civilians in "safe zones". But UN working staff should also be in clearly marked vehicles and buildings.

These stats falls very much in the general ballpark figure where Hamas numbers aren't automatically suspiciously high, no matter the wishful thinking to claim it so at least in the absence of additional information.

Still, I would very much also reason about these numbers on the basis of Arno's answer - take them with caution and keep in mind who issued them.

Quoting the Guardian's article cited in a comment, there is probably one area of contention: who gets counted as civilians vs Hamas in the casualties. Even then they cautioned against too much doubt.

Shakir said a grey area was differentiating combatants from civilians among the dead, but the large proportion of women and children killed was indicative of high civilian casualties.

One last thing to keep in mind when reasoning about casualties wrt children: Gaza has a very unusual age pyramid going on and nearly half of the population is under 18. So their proportions in the overall casualties are going to be different from what you'd expect from a war like that in Ukraine which has proportionally much fewer children. Make of that what you will, but it is a relevant data point.

Nearly half (47.3%) are under 18.

Italian Philosophers 4 Monica
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    UN also runs lotsa stuff in Gaza where they shouldn't be exposed, like schools. A lot of those have been turned into shelters these days. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67391335 – the gods from engineering Nov 14 '23 at 04:12
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    According to https://www.vaticannews.va/en/world/news/2023-10/gaza-unesco-calls-for-immediate-halt-to-strikes-against-schools.html the majority of UN staff killed were "teachers and educators". – the gods from engineering Nov 14 '23 at 04:22
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    One piece of contention is that the groups "children" (anyone under 18) and "Hamas fighters" overlap, as Hamas reportedly recruit minors. Then there is the archetypical Palestinian teenager throwing rocks at Israeli soldiers. Are those fighters or civilians? The distinction is not clear. – gerrit Nov 14 '23 at 08:26
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    @gerrit Yes, that's the kind of thing that I would be somewhat more skeptical about - who the Health Ministry counts in which bucket. But it's not necessarily all that likely to change the overall numbers - what this Q was about - all that much. And... the archetypical Palestinian teenager throwing rocks shouldn't be ending up in a morgue, if that's all he's done: he's not a fighter. – Italian Philosophers 4 Monica Nov 14 '23 at 17:40
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    @ItalianPhilosophers4Monica We've obviously got different definitions of what constitutes fighting during a war .... – deep64blue Nov 16 '23 at 15:20
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    @deep64blue We've obviously also got very different feelings for PR during a highly mediatized counterinsurgency operation. – Italian Philosophers 4 Monica Nov 16 '23 at 16:56
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Why news media report the numbers

The Washington Post has an article explaining why they - and others - rely on the Hamas-controlled Gaza Ministry of Health numbers[*].

Their main points are:

  • everyone does it ("Everyone uses the figures")
  • there are no other numbers
  • they believe that historically, the numbers have been accurate ("Many experts consider figures provided by the ministry reliable, given its access, sources and accuracy in past statements")
  • Hamas provides a list of names

They also acknowledge that:

  • They can't actually "independently verify the names"
  • Hamas does "not differentiate between combatants and civilians"
  • While not mentioned by the WP, Hamas also does not differentiate how the people died. The list includes victims of misfired rockts as victims of "Israeli aggression".

They do not acknowledge that Hamas is a terrorist organization with the goal to destroy Israel and kill all Jews. Instead they are calling it a "militant group". This gives some insight into why organizations are reporting these numbers: They don't see Hamas as the extremist group that it is.

Are the numbers accurate?

The WP does acknowledge that "accounts sometimes differ". The example they give is the al-Ahli Hospital bombing. According to the WP, Hamas gave casualty numbers as 471 & the US puts them at 100-300.

In fact, it's not just the US that has different numbers. At the time, the Anglican diocese that manages the hospital put it at 200, the director of the hospital at 250. In hindsight, the NYT concluded that the number was closer to 100 and said that Hamas has "deliberately disseminated misleading information to the international community".

That's putting aside that the hospital wasn't actually bombed by Israel, but by a misfired rocket from the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

So we know that Hamas inflates their numbers (in this case by a factor of almost 5). Media still use them as there are no other numbers and they believe that Hamas numbers are accurate.

How the numbers are reported

I've looked at headlines re casualties supposedly reaching 10,000 to see if news organizations are indeed reporting the numbers without a grain of salt.

We can see that only CNN acknowledges in the headline that the numbers ultimately come from Hamas. Some news org report the numbers as if they were facts in their headlines (reuters, al jazeera, NPR, bloomberg), while others qualify them (attributing the numbers to the health ministry). Most give the source in the article itself, though many don't mention Hamas.

[*] I shortened "Hamas-controlled Gaza Ministry of Health" to "Hamas" in the rest of my answer.

Timur Shtatland
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tim
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  • +1 Not to say it wouldn't bear repeating, but the news is generally written with the expectation that the reader knows that Hamas is running Gaza. So the "Health Ministry" would "Hamas' Health Ministry", implicitly. – Italian Philosophers 4 Monica Nov 15 '23 at 21:13
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    "While not mentioned by the WP, Hamas also does not differentiate how the people died." - which applies not only to misfires of their own rockets, but also to natural causes. Gaza has 2.3 mio. inhabitants. Life expectancy at birth (CIA World Fact Book) is 75 years in Gaza (which seems weird given how bad conditions are said to be, but ok) so death rates should be about 1.333%, i.e. 30,667 per year or 2,556 per month. So as an approximation, about 3000 people would've died by themselves from Oct 7th to today. If Hamas includes that number, 10,000 are actually 7,000. – Tom Nov 16 '23 at 12:07
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    'While not mentioned by the WP, Hamas also does not differentiate how the people died. The list includes victims of misfired rockts as victims of "Israeli aggression".' This wouldn't change the number of deads, and it's common everywhere else; for example, it is certain that some of the victims of the 7/10 attack were due to friendly fire by IDF forces, either because of stray bullets or just being mistaken for enemies, but they will be (rightly) counted as victims of Hamas even if it was an israeli bullet which killed them. – Rekesoft Nov 16 '23 at 13:02
  • @Rekesoft I do not think that it is right to attribute civilians killed by Hamas or PIJ terror to "Israeli aggression". That's not the same as friendly fire in a defensive action. The dimensions are also different, see the 471 - according to Hamas (actually closer to 100) - victims of the al ahli bombing. – tim Nov 16 '23 at 13:56
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    @tim In the Iraq war there were some instances of US aircraft blowing up US and British tanks, just like the war in Ukraine has seen an Ukrainian BUK blowing up a residential building in Kiev. A rocket which misfires and kills your own people is a basic definition of friendly fire. – Rekesoft Nov 16 '23 at 14:35
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The Ministry of Health has historically be reasonably accurate with its figures. And when they are backup up by UN figures or those from other NGOs, the burden shifts to demonstrating why they shouldn't be believed.

With that in mind, I often see the opposite stance - immediately retorting with "how can we believe Gaza MoH" figures as an virtual get out of jail free card for what we know is Israel's very broadly targeted bombing campaign of a densely populated area of civilians. Is its MoD not partial too? Independent figures are our best chance of understanding the situation, which means allowing journalists, calling internet access and protecting NGO offices in Gaza.

Marc A
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