1

Does the word discharge sound more like /dɪstʃɑːʳdʒ/ or /dɪsdʒɑːʳdʒ/?

How about exchange or disproportion?

Do they sound more like /ɪkstʃeɪndʒ/ or /ɪksdʒeɪndʒ/?

/dɪsprəpɔːʳʃən/ or /dɪsbrəpɔːʳʃən/?

I know the word student which commonly sounds like /sdjuːdənt/.

and the dictionary says its IPA transcription is /stjuːdənt/.

Void
  • 18,058
  • 7
  • 75
  • 107
Stats Cruncher
  • 775
  • 1
  • 7
  • 16

1 Answers1

3
  • Student doesn't sound like *[ˈsdjuːdn̩t]
  • discharge ......................... *[dɪˈsd͡ʒɑːd͡ʒ]
  • spy ................................... *[sbaɪ]
  • describe ........................... *[dɪˈsgraɪb]
  • system ............................. *[ˈsɪsdəm]
  • school .............................. *[sguːl]

you think they do because you're confusing the plosives in your native language with the plosives in English.

English has two bilabial plosives—voiced bilabial plosive /b/ and voiceless bilabial plosive /p/, two alveolar plosives—voiced /d/ and voiceless /t/ and two velar plosives—voiced /g/ and voiceless /k/

In English, they're distinguished through voicing; /p/, /t/ and /k/ are voiceless while /b/, /d/ and /g/ are their corresponding voiced counterparts.

They are phonemes—mental representation of sounds, but can be realised in more than one way. For instance, /t/ has many allophones (realisations):

  • in the beginning of a stressed syllable, it's realised [tʰ] (aspirated: with a big puff of air)
  • in unstressed syllables, it can be realised [t] (no big puff of air)
  • in most American accents, t in the middle of vowels can be realised [ɾ] (alveolar flap as in wa[ɾ]er)
  • some dialects of British English use a glottal stop as in wa[ʔ]er.

All these are the different realisations of the same phoneme /t/.

The most common allophones of /t/, /p/ and /k/ are respectively [tʰ, t], [pʰ, p] and [kʰ, k].

  • [pʰ tʰ kʰ] → unvoiced and aspirated
  • [p t k] → unvoiced and unaspirated

In English, if you use them interchangeably, they won't change the meaning of the word. For example, the word pin is supposed to be pronounced [pʰɪn], but if you pronounced the p without aspiration (i.e. [pɪn]), it wouldn't change the meaning (as Spanish speakers usually do). That is to say, aspiration isn't phonemic in English.

Whereas in other languages like Chinese, aspiration is a distinctive feature for certain sounds (i.e. aspiration is phonemic).

In Pinyin:

  • the letter ⟨b⟩ is used to represent 'unaspirated voiceless bilabial plosive', IPA [p]
  • ⟨d⟩ for 'unaspirated voiceless alveolar plosive', IPA [t]
  • ⟨ɡ⟩ for 'unaspirated voiceless velar plosive', IPA [k]

By contrast,

  • ⟨p⟩ is used to represent 'voiceless aspirated bilabial plosive', IPA [pʰ]
  • ⟨t⟩ for 'voiceless aspirated alveolar plosive', IPA [tʰ]
  • ⟨k⟩ for 'voiceless aspirated velar plosive', IPA [kʰ]

In words beginning ⟨sp-⟩, ⟨st-⟩, and ⟨sk-⟩, English speakers use 'voiceless unaspirated plosives'. For instance, the p in pie is aspirated, but unaspirated in spy:

  • pie → [pʰaɪ]
  • spy → [spaɪ] not *[spʰaɪ]

In Pinyin, ⟨sp-⟩, ⟨st-⟩, ⟨sk-⟩ would be represented by ⟨sb-⟩, ⟨sd-⟩, and ⟨sg-⟩, respectively. So you see there's a mismatch between English plosives and Chinese plosives.

That's why you hear sdudent for student, sgool for school and sby for spy.


Whereas in words beginning ⟨p-⟩, ⟨t-⟩ and ⟨k-⟩, English speakers use 'voiceless aspirated plosives'. Examples:

  • pie → [pʰaɪ]
  • time → [tʰaɪm]
  • kite → [kʰaɪt]

In Pinyin, ⟨p-⟩, ⟨t-⟩, ⟨k-⟩ would also be represented by ⟨p-⟩, ⟨t-⟩, and ⟨k-⟩, respectively. So you hear pie, time, kite correctly.

The same thing is going on with affricates (/t͡ʃ/ and /d͡ʒ/). Affricates in some dialects of English are aspirated, but it varies from speaker to speaker. And if you hear [st͡ʃ] as [sd͡ʒ], then there certainly is aspiration which is affected by the preceding [s] (the same way as [s] affects the aspiration of p, t and k).

Or if /t͡ʃ/ and /d͡ʒ/ are unaspirated, then they're only distinguished through voicing in English and voicing in Chinese is not phonemic so Chinese speakers confuse them easily.


Notes:

  • 'Plosives' are the consonants that are produced by stopping the airflow at a particular place of articulation, accompanied by a sudden release of air such as /p, b, t, d, g, k/ etc.
  • I've marked incorrect/ill-formed sequences with a preceding asterisk (*)
  • 'Bilabial plosives' are the sounds that are articulated with both the lips: /b/ and /p/
  • the superscript h [ʰ] represents aspiration; a big puff of air
  • I've used /slashes/ for phonemic data, [square brackets] for phonetic data and ⟨angled brackets⟩ for orthography (spelling)
  • I don't know how to format it properly, that's why I've used ' ............. ' instead of ditto marks.
Void
  • 18,058
  • 7
  • 75
  • 107
  • I think the use of the glottal t in water would be thought of as a dialect usage in the UK and the standard would be [t] – mdewey Dec 05 '20 at 16:54
  • @mdewey: Yeah it's dialectal – Void Dec 05 '20 at 16:55
  • I think the explanation in your answer can apply to ZhuYin (BoPoMoFo) too. – Stats Cruncher Jan 24 '21 at 11:16
  • Cast my eye over th wiki article on bopomofo and I think it applies to that – Void Jan 24 '21 at 13:22
  • The P in pie and the P in spy are not pronounced differently. At least not in the AmE I grew up speaking – Kevin Jun 28 '21 at 20:19
  • @Kevin: They are different at the phonetic level as I explained. Also, does it really deserve a downvote? (Note that I haven't downvoted your answer to the other question.) – Void Jun 29 '21 at 04:34
  • @void I downvoted it because I think it's wrong, not out of retribution. I must have said the words pie and spy a few hundred times in the last day or so I can hear absolutely no difference between the pronunciation of the P's. Maybe it's a regional thing or maybe I have something like tone-deafness (yes, I know it's not actually a tonal difference) and can't hear it, but to me, Spy sounds like pie with an s in front of it. I even feel the puff of aspirated air for both – Kevin Jun 29 '21 at 13:31
  • @Kevin: There is a puff of air in spy but almost negligible as compared to pie. Sp- sequences are less strongly aspirated than word-initial or syllable-initial p's in English. There's a striking difference between the p of pie and that of spy. But because English doesn't contrast p and , native speakers of English think of them as the same sound /p/. I don't see how my answer is wrong. If you have a better answer, go ahead and post it. You may be a native English speaker, but I'm afraid you're not a phonetician and don't know how to analyse speech sounds. – Void Jun 29 '21 at 13:47
  • @void Fair enough. Unfortunately, the site won't let me change my vote – Kevin Jun 29 '21 at 13:48
  • 1
    @Kevin: I don't mind the downvote at least you left a comment acknowledging it's yours (unlike the drive by downvoters). – Void Jun 29 '21 at 13:54