4

2 Peter 3:9 tells us that God is not willing that any should perish, but that all would repent. Yet most would agree that many have or will perish. So my question: Is God acting against His own will when judgement is brought down on unbelievers?

T. Smith
  • 41
  • 2
  • 2
    God does not desire that any should perish. Check a different translation; that verse is not referring to God's volition. ESV for example uses "wishing", not "willing". – Matthew Dec 14 '21 at 17:50
  • Will do. Thanks! – T. Smith Dec 14 '21 at 18:07
  • Lots of good answers here, but this question is off topic on the site in general. This question is a corollary of "can God create a rock so large he can't lift" or "can God create a square circle". The answer really requires doctrinal specificity, asking "can God" or "why does God" is almost always off topic on this site unless a framework is specified. – Peter Turner Dec 15 '21 at 17:52
  • @PeterTurner why would "can God" questions be off topic? It seems like all that matters here is a shared definition of omnipotence. I understand that "why does God" questions are going to depend on your denominational framework. – jaredad7 Dec 15 '21 at 17:57
  • And with this question in particular, the question is whether God is acting against what His will is specifically called out to be in scripture when He judges the wicked. It does not at all appear to be off topic. – jaredad7 Dec 15 '21 at 17:58
  • @jaredad7 I read these kinds of questions as requiring scriptural interpretation (which is also based on denomination. If it were clear, why ask about it?) I'm certainly open to changing this rather spotty moderation policy, but I'd need the community to make it clear it's their will on meta. – Peter Turner Dec 15 '21 at 18:02
  • 1
    Basically, if you get +5 votes on a 4 sentence answer with no citations, resulting in more comments than text in the answer, it's concrete evidence that the question is an off-topic philosophical question. – Peter Turner Dec 15 '21 at 18:06

4 Answers4

5

No, God cannot act against His own will, as that would be a contradiction. No one can act against his own will, though one can allow things that one does not will to pass by refraining from action. That is what God does. Though He does not will that any perish, He also does not force all to accept His grace and be saved.

jaredad7
  • 3,692
  • 1
  • 14
  • 41
  • "take this cup from me" - not my will, but yours be done. Two wills. Two different wills. An opposing will. Where in scripture has Jesus got two wills? It's very 'meaningful' to want to avoid the cross - the very reason God sent him! – steveowen Dec 14 '21 at 22:45
  • 2
    "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us." Jesus has a human nature and a Divine nature, hence two wills. You can choose not to believe it if you want, but the scriptural evidence is right there in John 1 – jaredad7 Dec 14 '21 at 23:15
  • If he has a divine nature (assuming you mean divine=God, and not just holy and w/o sin) then he cannot have his own will too or he would be in conflict with himself which scripture does not express. And so men have invented a Jesus with two natures, which is also unbiblical. I know many think the PA creeds are more important than the bible, I don't. – steveowen Dec 14 '21 at 23:36
  • 2
    @steveowen Your creating a false dichotomy, Read the following: https://effectiviology.com/false-dilemma/ Jesus was not opposing the will of the Father. Luke 22:44 He ask the Father to remove this cup of suffering while He was sweating great drops of blood before going to the cross. Jesus was sinless and "never" opposed the Father's will. Jesus was God who became a man (Philippians 2:5-9) and as a man extremely stressed out for what He was going to do which is an understatement. More to the point, what did Jesus finally say? "Not My will but yours be done." It's not opposition, it's dedication – Mr. Bond Dec 15 '21 at 03:22
  • Circumstance can force a man to do that which is against his will. In agreement with your answer, it is not so with God. – Mike Borden Dec 15 '21 at 12:58
  • @MikeBorden circumstance can certainly force a man to act without full consent of his will, but if he is in regular possession of his faculties, he cannot actually carry out any act without willing that act, at least in the moment he carries it out. What I mean here is that if someone threatens my family physically and "forces" me to shoot them in order to stop them, then I am still willing to shoot them in the moment I fire, even if I also don't want to do harm to the person under normal circumstances. – jaredad7 Dec 15 '21 at 13:39
3

Firstly, it's unclear whether your are asking about God's volition or about His desire. Both are fair questions, and since jaredad7 already responded to the one, I'll start instead by looking at the verse you mentioned:

The Lord [...] is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish (NKJV)

(Original KJV differs only in using the split preposition "to us-ward".)

However, if you compare other translations, most use "wish[ing]", and a few use "wanting". It seems clear that the original word indicated desire rather than volition, which breaks your premise, at least as following from the originally cited verse. Moreover, if we check the interlinear, the original Greek βουλόμενός is also consistent with an expression of preference.

That's not to say KJV is "wrong", per se, as "to wish or desire" is a recorded historic meaning for the verb "will" (n.b. definitions 6 and 7); indeed, the aforementioned BH interlinear lists "to will" as one of the translations of βουλόμενός (along with "to wish" and "to desire"). Unfortunately, such usage here is ambiguous, particularly to modern readers, which is likely why newer translations use a different word.

So... now that we're looking at the question of God acting against His desire... can He do that?

Well... it would be easy to say "yes", just as I might desire to eat another scoop of ice cream, but am able to resist. The issue at play here is that there is conflict; on the one hand, ice cream is tasty, but on the other it's unhealthy. Condemning unrepentant sinners is Just, even if God would prefer to not condemn anyone.

Matthew
  • 7,998
  • 15
  • 40
2

2 Timothy 2:13 (ASV) if we are faithless, he abideth faithful; for he cannot deny himself.

God cannot deny Himself - which means He carries out the mandates of His will always. However, there seems to be a hierarchy of precedence, the highest of which is the inviolability of the will of all His created beings. God has chosen to never force anyone and He remains true to this principle which tops the list - this is His will, an everlasting mandate. When our will clashes with God's will, in matters which are under our control - like our choice to be saved, God does not interfere. Though the loss of each soul weighs heavily upon Him.

One Face
  • 1,755
  • 15
  • 21
0

First the whole verse to get the flow of it:

"The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." 2 Peter 3:9 ESV

A. "patient towards you". 2 Peter 3:1 "I am writing to you, beloved", "you" are "beloved".

See 2 Peter 1:1 The letter is addressed to "those who have obtained a faith" i.e. Christians.

B. "not wishing that any". "any" who? Any in the church to whom the letter is addressed. [Not any in the world. The world is not mentioned here].

C. "but that all", all in the church. God is patient towards Christians as they mess up again and again but God does not wish that those in Christ perish, but that they repent- go to confession, confess to each other, confess to God, whatever is relevant to their level of sin, and situation.

Repentance is not a once event: "But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." 1 John 2:1 "anyone" may sin; anyone here is addressed to "My little children".

"My little children" are those who are taking advantage of "we have an advocate with the Father". Others may have or not have heard of Jesus, but the children are walking in the light of that truth. They are the ones who "know that we have come to know him" 1 John 2:3.

C. Stroud
  • 333
  • 3
  • 11
  • I see the passage is not referring to the church with, "not wishing that any should perish" because quite simply, the church is not going to 'come to repentance' - they already have 'come' and are continuing as you say. The world is yet to 'come to repentance', not those already in Christ. – steveowen Dec 15 '21 at 21:54